OK, those of you who are out in California, what's up with last night's penalty on the Cadets? Apparently they held up the show to have the hashes repainted before their performance, which resulted in a 2-point penalty and them dropping from 2nd place to 4th. But later it was supposedly removed, and they're back in second?

I just hope Blue Devils win, which I would not normally say, but it looks like everyone else is too far out, and I DON'T want the narration rewarded because of what it will do to NEXT year's shows.

But, again, I'm old...

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73, 78-79

Bob, there is an explanation of this situation on the DCI website.

Not sure exactly WHY it is so important to have the yard lines and hash marks so visible.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-1963

I read the response. Their director was concerned about his corps safey. When I saw the Cadets last week I didn't see any of the Cadets dancers swinging sabres or throwing rifles with bayonets when I saw them last week so I don't get it. I expect it's "showboating" by the Cadets Director.

I actually stood next to Hopkins during the Cadets performance last week in Palo Alto. He is a piece of work.

Apologize for the repeat in sentence in the above response. I spent the last two days in Redding CA and am still adjusting to the time change. Redding is ten years behind the rest of California.

Which means that the people of Redding should be enjoying the 1997 DCI Finals on PBS tonight!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-1963

No. Because they don't have a PBS station. Some might pick up the signal from Chico with the "rabbit ears" antenna on their TV.

I went to the DCI site to check out the final scores. Blue Devils won so drum corps is hopefully safe from narration for at least another season.

I hit the link to the Cadets site out of curiosity and learned that the Cadets were boo'd by the fans after their quarter-final performance and delay to repaint the hashmarks. Interesting.

sounds like George Hopkins at work on the hash mark issue.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-1963

I don't recollect a corps every being boo'd. We'll have to see if Bill S or some of the others who were at the quarter finals give us their observations.

I assume that the response was the result of his action rather than the kids.

Hash marks. The white lines or drug residue? Seems like you gotta be high on something to create a show with narration. Just wondering. More wondering. Did they narrate in Spanish to cater to the California crowd? Press 2 to delete this show from memory.

What did you do in the Corps? Drum

What years were you a Corps member? 1960-1969

not really sure why you need the lines and "hash marks" (yes John, the field markers) to do a drum corps show. BANDS used to need this, because they couldn't march their show without them. (Is this what drum corps have become?)

Narration seems to have different levels.

Some "voice" needed to help explain the "story" being presented.

Other narration might be to "introduce" the various presentations.

I STILL do not understand all this!

And, I don't really care either!!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-1963

more about the need for "hash marks" and field striping:

Thinking more about this and remembering that
corps nowadays march backwards (and sideways) at very high speeds. Leg crossovers are often involved, as is what they call "jazz running".

In order for the members moving in opposing directions to clear each other at those speeds, it is necessary to have visual benchmarks for proper positioning.

I have heard that, during the season, most if not all corps lose a number of members to injuries caused by collisions of this type, and the muscular demands of extreme body angles. In short, it can be very dangerous out there.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-1963

Just wait until George Hopkins introduces horses or elephants to the Cadets show.

nah .. the Cavies did that in 1971!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-1963

That '71 circus show seems pretty tame now, doesn't it?

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73, 78-79

Seems like Dave is saying that the corps now need a strength and conditioning coach. Do they all have weight rooms. It would be amusing to see a corps run "gassers" like a football team prior to starting practice.

If hashmarks are so important,what do the corps do when they go to Canada or Europe where the field is laid out in meters. Do they have to have a metric version of their show?

Bob, you are right. The 1971 Cavaliers "circus" show would be very tame by comparison now!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-1963

John, good question about "strength and conditioning". I suspect that the top DCI corps DO some form of training to help the members. Certainly, they have to "stretch" and "loosen up" before entering the field.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-1963

I know that the dancers "stretch" or "loosen up" before a performance or practice. I've observed this and it's pretty similar to what baseball players do before a game.

What I'm talking about is a weight and conditioning (running and calisthenics). The reason for this would be to build up endurance which I expect could be a factor with the amount of practice, shows and travel involved in the two to three month season.

I do expect it would be difficult for them to seriously do something like this as it has to be done for a couple of months prior to starting the season.

yes, it makes sense for corps to do this. But, as you said, it would have to be done regularly starting well in advance of the season.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-1963

The top corps DO incorporate running and other exercises into their rehearsals - most high school bands do as well. It's impossible to do these modern shows otherwise. I always try to imagine some of the characters I marched with doing these shows! Can you imagine Duke running around the field with his bass drum on like they do today? We wouldn't be able to field a corps by the second week of the season!

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73, 78-79

Bob is right ... but drum corps and society were WAY different in those days.

Our corps members were just other kids from the neighborhood .. and some were overweight and out of shape! Many weren't musicians .. the corps taught them to play their instruments.

The corps programs were much simpler too ... we never moved at high speeds. We didn't march backwards and sideways!

We had color guards (they actually guarded the colors!) Now they use auxiliaries who DANCE, wear makeup and costumes! NOBODY carries the National colors anymore. DXoes fit the "program"!

We didn't need strength and conditioning exercises to do the shows, although it would have helped!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

In the mid-60s we'd have a few people running their laps with a cigarette dangling from their lips. That would be a great picture.

re: strength and conditioning .. see the new thread on this. Give us more domments

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-1963

The delay was not because of the Cadets, but because of the DCI staff that relined the field and forgot to reline the hash marks. It was definately an error of DCI so the penalty was removed. In today's shows, the marchers rely on these field markings to get into the magnificent pictures that they now form. It's not like when we could march solely with a horn case marking where the fifty yard line was. Lastly, amplification is here to stay, if you're opposed, get used to complaining about it alot.

Jim Snyder made some great observations about this ...

The delay was not because of the Cadets, but because of the DCI staff that relined the field and forgot to reline the hash marks. It was definately an error of DCI so the penalty was removed.

........THIS IS TOTALLY CORRECT. DCI WAS IN ERROR. THE OTHER CORPS ALL SUPPORTED THE CADETS ON THIS.
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In today's shows, the marchers rely on these field markings to get into the magnificent pictures that they now form. It's not like when we could march solely with a horn case marking where the fifty yard line was.

.....YES, IT IS DIFFERENT! BUT, "MAGNIFICENT PICTURES"? I THINK NOT. MORE LIKE MARCHING AMOEBAS TO ME! :)
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Lastly, amplification is here to stay, if you're opposed, get used to complaining about it alot.

.....IMHO, AMPLIFICATION AND NARRATION BELONG IN OTHER VENUES, NOT DRUM CORPS. BUT, THAT IS WHAT THE CURRENT PEOPLE WANT, SO LET THEM DO IT. BUT, WITHOUT ME.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-1963

"Magnificent Pictures" would seem to be better described as "Helter Skelter."

Aside from facilitating narration, the amplification speakers seem to me to be no more than a prop. I watched the major corps performances in Palo Alto from the 50 yard line and only during one drum solo with tenor type drums could I sense some amplification.

Also, at the Palo Alto show I don't recollect seeing anyone re-chalk the hash marks during the break. So why didn't Hopkins protest for that show?

Gosh Dave, amplifying drums. Who would have thought it would come to this? Unless they were adding a special effect, didn't EVERY horn instructor, in EVERY corps say the drums were TOO LOUD? Actually, I think it is the way they are tuned - way too tight for my old fashioned ears.

What did you do in the Corps? drum

What years were you a Corps member? 1960-1969

John, don't even get me started on amplification!

And, I fully agree with you about drum tuning!
The current crowd knows nothing about tuning drums so they "speak" with proper voices.

The snares sound just like table tops ..no sonority or carrying power. No wonder they need 10 or 12 snares just to be heard!

And the other drums are just as bad.

And WHY did they decide to bring CONCERT instruments onto the drum corps field? Xylophones, marimbas, etc.
Besides needing amplification to even be heard, they are always adversly affected by weather conditions!

Just more of the "improvements" in DCI!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-1963

My observation is that the amplification is necessary to hear the instruments Dave mentions although I really couldn't sense the impact.

Dave you need to add one more instrument to the drum section--a bullhorn. One of the Bluecoats drummers used this device to make comments.

I'm still waiting for a corps to add a piano to the "pit."

Nobody ever told Spirit of Atlanta's drum line that we were too loud - not with THAT horn line!

And I agree with the tuning. There's no bottom to the sound any more.

And have any of you other old farts ever tried playing on one of those Kevlar heads? They're killers!

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73, 78-79

Hey you music guys, I recall hearing a piano is a percussion instrument because the keys strike the wires. If so, John A may be onto something. I can see it now, the Marching Grands and the Parked Players. Oh yeah, a whole new set of back injuries - we have to go back to having them move about the field - purely in the interest of artistic expression.

Bob, you are right about the new heads. They are like playing on concrete. Tough on the hands and wrists. Bought a new pad a few years back. One side is nice and soft so you can play into it, the other is just awful.

What did you do in the Corps? drum

What years were you a Corps member? 1960-1969

For those of you non-drummers out there (and the rest of us pray for you on a regular basis), the difference is mostly that WE were taught to do the work, while with the Kevlar heads, the DRUM does the work, so playing our way on those heads produces pain. AND a lousy sound...

As for the piano, that has been debated for YEARS. Some teach that it is a percussion instrument, because something is STRUCK to make the sound. Others believe it is a string instrument, because that's what actually MAKES the sound. I have always preferred to think of it as a percussion instrument, because it gives us something against those who say drummers AREN'T musicians...

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73, 78-79

What key was that in again?

What did you do in the Corps? marched

What years were you a Corps member? 1975-1980

Dave, The reason WHY the has has to be seen is really quite simple. Corps and bands alike can only set their shows to coordinates now the days of being able to "set to form" are long gone. If A group today had to march a show at the Illinois State Fair like back in the old days, they wouldn't be able to do it. Today kids get a very small coordinate sheet that tells them exactly where they have to be on the field at any given point. (ie. 12 steps off the front sidelines and 3.25 steps inside the 50). They may never even see the formation and don't even know their relationship to it. Yes it is easier to set but I don't think it is all that easy to clean. Especially when you are dealing with less experienced groups. We used to be able to teach a show in a weekend the old way and be able to revise it with very little effort but now with the complexity of computerized drills you can't and the "form" is a lost art.

Gary is correct .. the corps "marching" programs are WAY DIFFDERENT now!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-1963