Most people aren't aware that the Cadet Corps was the "savior" of the Imperials on several occasions. Mostly when the "A" corps lost a lot of members, the Cadets were drafted and moved up!

MANY Imperials got their start in the Cadets also!

One neat thing about the Cadets is that almost ALL of their instructors were former Imperials ... and solid Norwood names! People like: Joan (Purse) Briske, Mickey Graeber, George Munzer, Joe Donnelly and others!

Sadly, mostly because the two corps moved in such different circles, they almost never saw each other at shows or parades. When they DID, there was a great show of support ... but a closer relationship would have been great too.

AND, we CAN'T forget that the Cadets won a National Championship! Amvets, 1961 I believe.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer 1958-63; asst. drum instructor 1964-70; quartermaster 1964-66

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

I started in the Cadets in 1970, when I was 10 years old. Interestingly, I had been with the Cavalier Cadets that winter, but they were just starting up and really weren't going to do anything that first summer. Since I had already been playing drums for years, the Cavaliers suggested that we go to Norwood, who had a well-established cadet corps. Our schedule was just as hectic as the A corps, except most of our performances were parades. We still performed every weekend in the summer, and practiced on Saturday mornings at St. Techla school. We learned a drill (but a shortened one - like the big corps did for prelims). We probably did 3 or 4 competitions each year (AL and VFW State, Illinois Association championships), along with some exhibitions. The one I remember most was in 1970 - we were the exhibition corps at the North American Nationals, taking the field after watching Garfield, Troopers, Argonne Rebels, Kilties, Nisei Ambassadors, Des Plaines Vanguard. We were certainly in heady company that night! I still have a tape from that show.

That night Bob Briskie was the announcer. When we took the starting line, he said that "this corps will never win a Nationals." I know what he meant NOW, but we were pretty mad about what appeared to little kids like an insult - especially from a former Norwood member whose wife was our drill and guard instructor!

And Dave was right - there wasn't a lot of interaction between the Cadets and the Imperials, mostly because of different schedules. But we did look up to them, and most of us couldn't wait to move up.

In the mid-70's, there was part of DCI called CCI, for Cadet Corps International, that held their own championships for feeder corps. The original members included the Imperial Cadets, Cavalier Cadets, Madison Scout Cadets, Kiltie Cadets, and Guardsmen Cadets. It didn't last long, as DCI got bigger and the feeder corps started to disappear.

And, just like the Imperials, the Cavalier Cadets saved that corps once - between 1978 (when they fell out of finals at DCI) and 1980.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73, 78-79

Bob, CCI was not a part of DCI. It was just a group of local area Cadet corps who banded together and were able to get shows. They did get from help from the Illinois Drum Corps Association when they started.

I judged shows for them from time to time and it was always FUN. They always tried hard. Some of them were VERY entertaining and proficient.

In fact, at their annual championship show at the end of summer, MOST of the corps were pretty darn good!

All were learning and having fun. The judges always tried to respect that and be merciful and helpful.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer 1958-63; asst. drum instructor 1964-70; quartermaster 1964-66

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

The Cadets won the Illinois AMVETS championship in 1961 and the AMVETS national championship in 1961.

The Cadets and Imperials did operate separately and about the only time they were at the same events was the Norwood Park Memorial Day Parade, American Legion State (always held in Chicago) and when Norwood sponsored a contest.

The 1961 season also resulted in friction between the President of the Imperials and the Manager of the Cadets. After the Cadets won the AMVETS state championship the Board of Directors discussed sending the Imperials to compete for the AMVETS national championship. The Cadets manager won out during that Board meeting and the Cadets went to Louisville. Also, when it came time for the fall election for President, the Cadets manager ran against the incumbent and became the corps President.

The Cadet corps of 1961 was the foundation for the Norwood corps in 1965 and 1966. The Board election of 1961 also resulted in Rick Maass returning to Norwood as first drill instructor and then corps manager.

What did you do in the Corps? Baritone--Cadets 1959 through 1961 Imperials 1962 through 1966

What years were you a Corps member? 1959-1966

Imperials AND the Cadets OR Imperials VERSUS the CADETS?

It seems that our corps has had some times of friction between the two units, mostly due to "crazy" parents and Board members (see previous posts).

Some of this could have been the result of busy schedules and lots of other activities taking place.

But, the truth is, our management (Board and staff of both corps) could have done a much better job of coordination between the two units.

For example:

1. better interaction between / among the parents
of both units
2. having some practices for both corps at the same
site .. to allow some interaction
3. coordination of instructional styles and basics
between the two corps
4. having a "rookie camp" approach to bringing up
Cadet members to the Imperials, with special
instruction in basic styles as used in the
Imperials.
5. Using a "big brother" approach to helping new
Cadets when they moved up to the Imperials
6. Deliberatly looking for opportunities to have each
corps see and applaud the other at turnouts.

There are other ideas, I am sure. And, some of these things WERE tried to a limited degree. But, none of it really became institutionalized.

Too bad. BUT, the Imperials were always proud of the Cadets ... sort of their "little brothers".

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

Imperials AND the Cadets OR Imperials VERSUS the CADETS?

It seems that our corps has had some times of friction between the two units, mostly due to "crazy" parents and Board members (see previous posts).

Some of this could have been the result of busy schedules and lots of other activities taking place.

But, the truth is, our management (Board and staff of both corps) could have done a much better job of coordination between the two units.

For example:

1. better interaction between / among the parents
of both units
2. having some practices for both corps at the same
site .. to allow some interaction
3. coordination of instructional styles and basics
between the two corps
4. having a "rookie camp" approach to bringing up
Cadet members to the Imperials, with special
instruction in basic styles as used in the
Imperials.
5. Using a "big brother" approach to helping new
Cadets when they moved up to the Imperials
6. Deliberately looking for opportunities to have each
corps see and applaud the other at turnouts.

There are other ideas, I am sure. And, some of these things WERE tried to a limited degree. But, none of it really became institutionalized.

Too bad. BUT, the Imperials were always proud of the Cadets ... sort of their "little brothers".

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

It was too cool to watch "THE IMPERIALS" while I was in "B" corp. The best was in 1970 at Deerfield and they beat SCV. The cadets that were there yelled and applauded. Also, I was at the 1970 Rockford show (first appearance after the accident). I was at awe. Listening to the Corp song before going on the field. My mother was involved in Mother's club while I was in "B" corp, but by the time I went to "A" corp it was no longer.

I agree with Donna - we IDOLIZED the A corps when we were in the Cadets. The problem was in the other direction - I don't remember much coming down our way. I still have tapes of shows (back when you could do that), and half the time you can't hear the corps because of the cheering from the Cadet members. We couldn't wait to "move up" to the big corps. But it also scared the you-know-what out of us, because there were some tough people to deal with up there.

I remember Buddy Grana, who was managing the Cadets in 1970 when I joined, introducing me to the DMs of the A corps. I remember being in awe, and from that point on I wanted to be a DM one day. But I don't remember it seeming like anything to them. Obviously, I was a ten-year old kid. But - and, I know, here's the Cavalier stuff again - over there, they made a HUGE deal out of the relationship between the two corps. And, just like Norwood, the Cadet corps saved the Cavaliers in the early 80's.

Dave's right - if the relationship between the two had been handled better, BOTH corps would have benefitted.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Maybe a better reason is lack of organization and vision. The Board was always focused on the Imperials. In my memory it was only that year in 1961 that there was a big political deal. Although there might have been something in 1959 as President of the corps in 1960 and 1961 (who was defeated in the fall of 1961 by the Cadets manager) had been the manager of the Cadets.

Don't know if I'd call the parents and board "crazy" as the 1961 issue was based on the Cadets parents response to the AMVETS nationals issue, but with stronger ties and better overall organization management this might not have happened.

Of course this kind of stuff happens in all organizations that are run by volunteers--if people don't like something they either fight to get their way or stop supporting the organization. In looking back perhaps one can conclude that the successful corps like the Cavaliers and Royal Airs had one strong leader (Warren and Laurie) in charge who seemed to have run things in a more businesslike manner but who also were benevolent dictators. Today's DCI corps seem to function in that manner--it's my impression that all major corps have one person (the Director) who is a strong leader. Most of us don't like what George Hopkins has done to drum corps on the field, but he seems to be the one who is in charge of his organization.

Seems that John Anderson said the same things I did .. just in more polite terms!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

Dave,

I've had to learn to be tactful.

The issues relative to Norwood are the same for any organization where volunteers are a big part of making things happen. I've been on the board of governors of a national professional society for the past six years and just finished a year as President. Same problems only on a bigger scale and bigger egos. The people who manage a corps, church groups, PTA groups,etc. not only have to deal with accomplishing the objectives of the group but also have to keep their volunteers (customers) happy. More often than not the second part is always harder and the reason why a volunteer organization fails.

I don't know the full story but I expect that the Royal Air alumni corps management couldn't keep people happy. That group was probably even more complex because the members of the corps were also the volunteers.

The pictures of the Imperial Cadets on the Alumni website are great. Shows the corps over many years. Ever notice how they look virtually the SAME year by year?

Also interesting to see the YOUNGER version of members who appear later in the pictures of the Imperials!

This also reminds me of the tremendous importance of the Cadets to the Imperials! They provided a steady source of trained and (somewhat) experienced new members. Sometimes, these new members were DESPERATELY needed. A few times, almost the entire Cadet corps was "brought up" to rebuild the "A" corps!

The Cadet corps also provided a place for young kids who wanted to join a corps, but were too young for the "A" corps level.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63