We were talking about the St. Vincent's Cadets (Vinnies) on another thread ... mostly about how they had been a great championship corps in the 40s and 50s, then along came the Cavaliers to beat them (in Miami in 1957!)

Turns out that win was very controversial, with some allegations of "funny stuff" with the judging involving penalties not being assessed and the like.
That's too bad. If you win, you want it to be a WIN!

I tried to "Google" and get to a website for the St. Vincents corps. Didn't do that, but did find a site with some GREAT info and pictures of the corps. Take a look. www.osmondpostcadets.com/StVincent.htm

BTW ... our own Corps Director and instructor Rick Mass was a good friend of the St. Vincent's Director, Mickey Petrone! (Also, of the legendary drum major of the Reilly Raiders, "Wild Bill" Hooten!)

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

I thought "Wild Bill" Hooten was with the Yankee Rebels. He was the one who put on a show when they played "the Stripper" concert in 1963. That would be an interesting number for a DCI band.

Vinnie's AND Reilly were apparently corps you wanted to stay away from off the field...

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Bob, I have heard the same story about St. Vinnies and Reilly. But, we visited the music practice of the St. Vincent Cadets in 1958 when we visited New York. They were OK, but WERE a bit "rough".

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

John, Bill Hooten was the drum major of the Reilly Raiders for MANY years. But, they folded in the early 1960s .. maybe 1961. So, it is possible that he then moved to the Yankee Rebels.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

I think if you have a recording of the Yankee Rebels from the 1963 Dream, they mention "Wild Bill" Hooten.

What did you do in the Corps? Baritone--Cadets 1959 through 1961 Imperials 1962 through 1966

Dave,that's the same web-site I found some how.Do
you also remember when we were in Minneapolis in 59'
we were housed in the same Dorm that St.Vincents
was in?I can remember how intimidating they were,
until we got to know them and actually formed a
friendship with a lot of them,during that time we
were there.

One thing I do remember some of them saying is that
they don't take to kindly to people who like the
Cavaliers.They still had this bad taste in there
mouth.

Dave I remember going to St.Vincents practice,but
didn't we go Garfields practice to,not sure if it
was the same contest we were at,but I also remember
we went to this practice that was outside and that's
where the horn line was.Trying to remember,but it's
been a long time ago.

What did you do in the Corps? French Horn

What years were you a Corps member? 1957 thru 1963

Again looking at Jodeen Popp's book (I think she was related to the Grana's), it says Wild Bill Hooten went to the Skyliners after leaving Reilly. Reilly actually tried a one-year merger with the Musketeers before calling it quits.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Rich, I remember staying with the St. Vincent Cadets at Minneapolis. They were OK and we built some friendships with them. (Remember that we had visited with them the previous year in New Jersey too)

It's true they didn't care for the Cavaliers!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

Bob, Jodeen is the sister of Cherri Grana, Hank's wife. Jodeen and Cherri marched in the Aurora Vaqueros (spelling?) Drum Corps.

I just listened to the intro of the 1963 Dream Contest recording for the Yankee Rebels and the announcer introduces Wild Bill Hooten as their coordinator. I recollect him performing as their second drum major who did a dance during their concert.

The Yankee Rebels also performed sort of a limbo contest during their show--corps members gyrated under a horizontal pole. Have no idea how the drum major's "Stripper Dance" and the limbo were judged in those days but it was entertaining and different.

I've also always assumed that someone named "Wild Bill" had to have a lot to do with that 1963 Yankee Rebels show. It was one of the more unique shows I recollect seeing during my time in Norwood and the only reason I remember it.

What did you do in the Corps? Baritone--Cadets 1959 through 1961 Imperials 1962 through 1966

There is a link to the St. Vincent Cadets history from the City of Bayonne website:

www.osmondpostcadets.com/StVincent.htm

Lots of excellent pictures from the 1940s and 50s .. including a lot from Roosevelt Stadium, site of the Dream.

They also have music from the St Vincent Cadets 1956 show .. a remarkably good recording actually!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

Interesting stuff. The parent site is the Osmond Post Cadets. If one goes to that site there is a bunch more stuff on corps of that era. Chicago Grenadiers. A number of these corps are well before my time. What I didn't find on that site was information on the Cavaliers, Belleville, Madison and Norwood. Of course maybe the Osmond Post Cadets never competed against the four top mid-western corps of that era.

Interesting historical pictures of St Vincents--in the 1950s Newark and Bayonne were much different cities than they were in the 1960s. I suppose the same can be said for all of the major cities (Detroit comes to mind as well).

What did you do in the Corps? Baritone--Cadets 1959 through 1961 Imperials 1962 through 1966

John, it appears that the Osmond Cadets folded after 1956. This was well before the midwest corps you mentioned started to be seen on the national scene.
Osmond won some Nationals in the late 40s and early 50s.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

Dave,

The corpsreps site has Norwood, Madison and Cavaliers scores (at Nationals) as far back as 1951. I think the deal is that Osmond might not have competed in the same national contests. You're right that it wasn't until the late 50s that all the major midwestern and eastern corps would show up at the same national contest.

The site is real interesting as it features other corps like the Liberty Bell Cadets and Austin Grenadiers. My first year in the corps I remember people mentioning the Grenadiers but aside from that I never heard much about them. Somehow I think I recollect they had a similar off the field reputation as St Vincent's.

The Austin Grenadiers were from the west side of Chicago ... the same area the Royal Airs came from not too much later!

Maybe we can ask some of our 1950s alums about this?

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

The other old corps is Logan Square which I think became the Mel Tieney (sp?) Vanguard and then the Skokie Vanguard.

The 50s in the east and midwest (and even California) seem to have had some good "local" corps. Maybe that was the peak of the activity.

John, Logan Square and the Grenadiers were both excellent corps in their day.

In the 1940s and 1950s, drum corps was MOSTLY "local" and "regional". There was normally just ONE non-local trip .. to Nationals. Lots of corps didn't even get that chance.

Some corps did a "tour" as they traveled to Nationals. The Holy Name/ Garfield Cadets did that in 1961 when they went to Denver.

There were some great regional shows that attracted corps though. The Milwaukee "Spectacle of Music" was one.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

I believe that George Henning (Judge Andros) came to Norwood from the Grenadiers.

Corpsreps lists the Osmond corps as the Osmond Hurricanes. The history includes: In 1948 the corps reached the top when they took the VFW National Championship at St Louis. Another state championship and a second straight VFW National Championship was won at Miami, Florida, in 1949. After that show in Miami, a powerful hurricane struck the area, and the corps had to stay in Miami until debris could be cleared from the roads. This event inspired the Corps to adopt the nickname The Osmond Hurricanes.

Their scores:
1948 VFW - St Louis
Osmond Cadets 91.350
St. Vincent's Cadets 90.950

1949 VFW - Miami
Osmond Hurricanes 90.370
East Germantown 88.650
St. Vincent's Cadets 88.050
Irvington Squadron 87.900
General George Bell Post 86.050

1950 VFW - Chicago
St. Vincent's Cadets 92.650
Osmond Hurricanes 91.450
General George Bell Post 90.400

1951 VFW - New York
St. Vincent's Cadets 94.550
Liberty Bell Cadets 90.000
Osmond Hurricanes 89.000

1953 VFW - Milwaukee
St. Vincent's Cadets 89.750
Audubon Bon Bons 89.650
Most Precious Blood Crusaders 88.650
Kilties 87.750
Osmond Cadets 87.650

They appeared at PA VFW State in 1955, but the scores end there.

What did you do in the Corps? Drumline

What years were you a Corps member? 1960-1965

The Vanguard website has years of competition scores and available to non members.

If any alums have looked at the website noted about the Osmond Cadets and St. Vincent Cadets, they will note that the writers speak often about how these corps were local community, parish based corps!

They make a great point about how the local kids in the community looked up to corps members and wanted to be in the corps.

It was not just an activity, it was a community activity and a chance to learn a lot of stuff. Even more than music. About life

Of course, life in the US has changed. There are so many other things for kids to do now in their communities. Youth programs, sports, school actvities... etc.

But, when I joined the Imperials, it was still MOSTLY (not 100%) a local thing. Most of us lived in the Norwood Park area. We went to school and church together. Way different now.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

I'd say a likely bigger reason for the change is people moving to the suburbs rather than just kids having more things to do. All the Chicago corps (Norwood, Cavaliers, Royal Airs, Vanguard (Logan Square), Austin, Gladstone, etc.) and many of the Eastern corps on the Osmand/St Vincents site were from neighborhoods in cities. Those neighborhoods were changing in the 60s (usually for the worse) as the people and jobs moved to the suburbs.

The American Legion and VFW Posts, churches, the-Y, schools, Boy and Girl Scouts, etc. were the social centers. Most city neighborhoods also had weekly or bi-weekly newspapers. Now in the cities there are far fewer if any unifying institutions for a neighborhood (unless you count the street gangs or in areas that have been Yuppified where there aren't any kids.).

Those old corps were a big deal because that was the thing to do. The neighborhoods were like small towns within the big city.

What did you do in the Corps? Baritone--Cadets 1959 through 1961 Imperials 1962 through 1966

Was looking through the forum for stuff about championships and found the notes from a past thread on St. Vincents.

Do any NP alums have specific memories of the St. Vincent Cadets .. seeing them at shows, meeting the members, etc?

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

Was looking through the forum for stuff about championships and found the notes from a past thread on St. Vincents.

Do any NP alums have specific memories of the St. Vincent Cadets .. seeing them at shows, meeting the members, etc?

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63