When people first started moving cross country to march with their favorite corps, many of the groups put limits on how many they would take in, so they wouldn't completely fall apart in September. But that was when corps still did some local things during the off season.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Does 2008 Phantom Regiment's bludgening of the slaves (color guard), with all their brass instruments, qualify as inappropriate content? The slaves are bashed into submission and lie astrew on the field afterward.

Bill, you were there and I wasn't. Was this something that would offend people? Be inappropriate for kids?

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

After watching the movie "Sweeney Todd", I think I smell a new theme for Phantom next year. And with allowing fluids, I can see the field turn red with fake blood.

What did you do in the Corps? Drum Major and Baritone

All I can say on this is that Phantom was great and had a terrific show.......by far the crowd favorite (Cavies 2nd favorite). Phantoms show not only theatrical, they had great horns and drums.....probably not the best drill (Cavies and BD better)but cetainly good enough to win.

I agree, Tom.

That's not what we're talking about, tho.

Dave, re the use of brass to beat on the slaves, I just don't know. I saw Phantom 4 times this summer and I always wondered about that scene, each time. Again, there are kids in the crowd; two of my grandkids are in grade school band. I just don't know if what the "big kids" in the corps do makes it ok for the little kids to do, too, at their home sites. Can they differentiate? I know my g'kids really eat up drum corps, but they take a lot of what they see quite literally. I never taught band, but I don't know if the use of instruments to beat on people is what I would want the kids to see. As for us adults, Dave, no problem, I think.

Is that 20 mile radius or 20 state radius???

Yeah, I can see DCI implementing that in maybe another lifetime. LOL


Remember all of the rules that used to govern and protect the small corps and others from raiding after a certain date? I think it was in February or March. After that time a corps had to give a member a release for them to be able to march in another corps that year. Now the kids just hop from one audition to another to see where they can land for the best shot at winning. Seems to me that the activity was always much more than just winning to it's members. Hope I haven't opened up a can of worms again.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

sorry, didn't see that this thread went into a second page. My post relates to Bill's posts on the first page.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

What Phanton did was no big deal. They are correct it was part of the story. What is truly offensive is a bunch of boy dancing around in green.

What did you do in the Corps? horn

What years were you a Corps member? 82-84

phobic?

Phantom Regiment's throat slashing IS a big deal. It is a huge deal.

In 2008, they mark the spot in which violence was not only allowed, but also condoned and rewarded, doubly so -- the DCI title, and the Disney Award for family entertainment. They are all at fault. Regiment's scene opens the door for all that is to follow, now, re violence, etc., in drum corps.

How does our activity show that a young man and woman are lovers, in '09? Go Phantom!


Do you mean to tell me...
Do you mean to tell me, that with the wealth of creative talent on Phantom's staff, that they could not think of a single creative way to let us all know that the drum major (emperor, asst. emperor.. ha ha, or whomever) kills this young woman?! We, the fans, are too stupid to understand, unless we are explicitly shown? They have to show us the drum major slitting this young woman's throat?! I felt insulted. Creativity in drum corps took a giant leap backwards with Phantom Regiment, in 2008.

I still say, and I will always say, that a grandparent ought to be able to bring 6-11 year olds to a DCI event and not have to have them witness blatant violence being depicted in front of their eyes. I might be the only one saying it, but I will scream it from the roof tops, Phantom Regiment was wrong and Phantom Regiment hurt drum corps as an activity, with their cheap sensationalism and total lack of creative expression, and total insensitivity to family values. I told them so, in email and in person, and they didn't want to hear it. So be it.

Drum corps was one of the last bastions of entertainment to which you could bring kids of any age.

P.R. used to be my second favorite corps. Now it's... Do what you have to do to win a title, Regiment, period. Win at all costs. Win, win, win. One thing that I will say about that corps with the new green uniforms is that they exist to entertain the crowds and they give families what they want. But then, this has always been Madison's tradition and still is. Phantom Regiment sold out, period. I've lost all respect for them. Go Scouts!

I want my money back, from PR, that I donated to their fuel fund, before I saw their program this summer. They almost went broke after '07 (you know that?). Perhaps it would have been better for our activity had they done so. Go Imperials and all you represented on the field!

No big deal, huh? I beg to differ... a huge deal, indeed.

How many individual stabbings, at the center of the show's attention (while other activity holds still), are there in the '08 P.R. program! The throat slashing is not the only blatant graphic slaying.

I think Dave is right, you must get paid by the word. LOL

Bill,
Can we have an end to the bashing of Phantom for the throat slashing move and also all the flag waving for Cavaliers? I have seen much worse behavior and programming by drum corps and bands over the years than that one part of Phantom's show, and I apologize for not sharing the same level of enthusiasm for Cavaliers.

There are 12-15 really good corps in DCI, maybe we should all spend more time dissecting their performances than continuing this diatribe on one small segment of an otherwise superior performance by Regiment.

Sorry if this post may seem critical or offensive, it is not intended to be so. It's just time to move on. What Phantom did in that segment was questionable and offended some people. Other people found it far less offensive than you. In the big picture though there are much bigger fishes to fry than that one. I personally don't believe that one incident in their show was all that bad, or will lead to the kind of presentation that you implied in your last post. I would guess with all the negative feedback they have received, Phantom will think long and hard before including material like that again.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

You say, "I have seen much worse behavior and programming by drum corps and bands over the years than that one part of Phantom's show...." Tell me. Be specific! Tell me! List them... here!! One after the other. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and so on! I'll wait for your posting here. Name the year and the show, for each worse behavior that you are talking about here, than from Phantom '08. Go ahead, list all of them. I'm waiting to see this list, anxiously.

And... it's not just one murder, by 08 Phantom, as you say. Did you see the show? I saw it 4 times, in person. How many murders were graphically displayed by Phantom in their '08 program? Do YOU know?

And... contrary to what you say, P.R. will NOT think twice, in spite of all the complaints that have been thrown at them! Phantom will do it again... and then some... in a minute, next time... as I gather, after talking with their two chief honchos. Did YOU talk with them, as I have? Winning is it! Win!

What they did is wrong, and I might well be the only person on this website who says so. Apparently, I am. So be it. I will stand alone, as Phantom's Spartacus did.

And, what the heck does this have to do with the Cavaliers, any how? Why do you mention them in this discussion? They don't have a thing to do with it. Phantom was downright wrong, period. The Cavies have zero to do with any of this.

And... who is "Mike," with no last name, anyhow? Thanks for putting down your last name, Jerry. Ok... I'm waiting, patiently, for this list.

p.s. Phantom's top brass are arrogant. You can have them.

Bill,
I will not list all of the corps or bands that I have seen bad behavior from or bad programming from just to satisfy your anger. The members of those organizations have moved on and I would be doing them a disservice by bringing back into the public conscience things that happened in the past and attacking or identifying them needlessly. I have been in the activity as a performer, instructor, director, programmer, designer, judge and observer for over 40 years and have seen a great deal during that time. I have seen things that make Phantom Regiment's show look like Mary Poppins, but I will not denigrate or attack those organizations by listing their names or what they did, especially since it was in the past. Enough is enough! You have been all over this for weeks, just give it a rest. You have your opinion and I respect your right to say it. Now respect our right to say what we think without seeing ten posts in response because you don't agree with what you read.

I won't respond to your accusation of arrogance on the part of Phantom's staff and management because I do not share your opinion on that subject and I can think of other groups that are far more arrogant historically. However with that said, there is no way that you could know whether they are listening to or how they are responding to the criticism about their show structure at this point in time. They defended their show during the season because they were dedicated to it and weren't going to make changes, but because of the negative response they just might think twice about using those types of segments in the future, and there is no way that you as an outsider can predict how they will react one way or the other. To do so would just be conjecture on your part and a disservice to them. They are the DCI champions, like it or not. They deserve to be respected for the quality of how they perform and not continually assailed for something that they were told to do by the design team.

Let's give this thread a rest and move on to more enjoyable topics.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

I'm done.

Thank you. We both should be done with this topic. We have both said what we felt we had to say, so lets move on. I know you feel strongly about this topic or those show sequences and I respect you for your opinion. I know Dan Farrell and some others on their staff. They are good people who will take into consideration the criticism that they hear with regard to their show or questionable elements of it. Enough has been said by both of us and others on the subject. There are so many other things that we share a common agreement on within this forum for this to get into the way of good discussion and conversation. For me this thread is over. Thank you if you feel the same.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

Who won?

This is America; there's gotta be a winner and a loser! Does NPI allow ties?

ROFL, it was a tie, OK? Nobody needs to win this debate Bill. However, we BOTH win because we will remain friends on here by agreeing not to be disagreeable.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

I move that NPI allows ties on it's forum. No debate winners necessary.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

Good!

Good night Bill.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

Good night, Jerry. ~ Bill

MORE disturbing content than Phantom 2008:

1) Star of Indiana's entire 1993 show
2) Bridgemen's uniforms (sorry, Sheila)
3) The Thing
4) Argonne's drum line
5) Dave Borck judging individual contests

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

I'm bored.

Bob,

Don't know if I'd include the Bridgemen. When I first saw them I thought they seemed to be attired like the population of Bayonne. Totally within character and representative of their community.

John

Re: Bob's suggestions - I'd agree with 3 of them. The Bridgemen's uniforms were OK (I'd have to agree with John on that). Regarding his #5 - thankfully, I didn't do many of those contests!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

Just kidding, Dave - you know that!

Bridgemen were a corps that I enjoyed on records/tapes/CDs - as long as I didn't have to look at them.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

I enjoy them, in their yellow raincoat uniforms, very much on DVD, too. Fine musicians, too. Wish they were still around. Two summers ago, they did an Alumni Corps (anniversary?); wish I could have seen them. I have seen a huge picture of their Alumni Corps, for sale, at drum corps finals, last year or the year before, or both. I wish yellow would be used in uniforming today... too much black and too much blue, too. Go yellow!