Bill Schaefer has made another great observation ... see below:

Go see the Racine Scouts. Poor kids (there aren't many) are wearing time-worn, rag-tag uniforms and they sound awful. They just aren't field ready; not even close. Their drill could be done by you and me. You could say that at least they're out there. However, it is downright embarrassing; I have never seen the likes of the '08 version of that corps. Pathetic. I guess it's on its last legs; sure seems so. I am glad to watch any corps perform, I've always said. That is no longer true. Last year's Capitol Sound was awful too, but they were terrific, by comparison. They are taking '08 off; coming back in '09, it was announced. I wonder what is happening there. I really feel for the kids. Are they oblivious to it all, do you think? What should be done in such a case, folks?

Could these corps be "adopted" as some big corps' "sister corps"? Or what??
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Well, Bill, they are young and inexperienced. The only way to make progress is to GET experience. Maybe they shouldn't be on the fields That is a management decision. As a judge, I saw MANY young corps which were at that level. They probably should have been in parades or Cadet shows. But, Cadet shows don't exist anymore.

They ARE getting experience. It can be painful though .. for them and the audience!

Not sure how "being adopted" would help them. Unless some encouragement.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

Unfortunately, like said earlier, there isn't a cadet class for kids to learn. Now, little corps like Scouts are thrown into the deep end of the pool to learn how to swim. A sad commentary on how far drum corps has gone down as a activity. Corps like Bill is describing need a circuit of their own to learn in, where the kids will have a positive experience.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

The Racine Scouts have been having troubles with their management for years now.I know people who are band directors and have had their students go to the Scouts and not have good experiences. It's ashame because they have one of the best histories (going back to 1927) in drum corps.

There have always been "horrid little corps." But, some of these groups have more important purposes than being competitive. In Joliet, my hometown, they started a corps through the Boys and Girls Clubs, and competitively, I don't think they ever beat ANYONE. But it gave those kids experiences - and KEPT them from experiences - that were important. I don't think they exist anymore, but they were around for many years in the 80s, and their director is a local hero because of it. Reminded me of the "Gay Blades" in Illinois - anyone remember them?

But, having said that, the Racine Scouts is different, because they've been around forever and deserve better.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Bob, the whole point about the "horrid little corps" is that they ALL deserve better treatment. That is why Cadet corps shows were so important. A "less intense" venue where they could learn and gain some positive experiences!

In fact, the judging system was designed for ways to allow these corps to gain scores appropriate to their level .. without being embarrassed. Yes, the scales were different!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

I agree with JERRY.....

The system has displaced a venu for a 'B' corps to preform(other than parades)and develope. I marched in the Norwood Cadets and we weren't very good but it provide a path for us to grow into-looking up to our mentors with lances and playing the 'Flying Dutchman'.

I remember us winning Class C at the Illinois Association Championship with tbe Cadets in 1971 - we couldn't have been more excited if we had won VFW Nationals! To win ANYTHING with a feeder corps was amazing. I don't know how those smaller corps exist these days, having to compete with the 'big boys' all the time. I can't imagine having to compete with the Cavaliers, Royal Airs, our own 'A' corps, etc.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

In 1982 we were on of those Corps. As an A Corps, we got beat by Cavalier Cadets, Phantom Cadets, and Madison Cadets.

The drum line didn't even have music for half of the show, we made up our own parts.

In 1983, we did better as at least the drums and horn line both had music, but we were short on drill at the end and played our last 2 songs in concert formation.

I remember the Glassmen became huge fans of ours as we never gave up and had the stomach to go out there and do our show no matter what.

What did you do in the Corps? Cymbals, Bass Drum, Tenor

What years were you a Corps member? 1980 - 1983

So tell me Bill, when your grand kids perform at school or some other activity, do you give them that kind of review or do you take in to account that they are young and at least trying. Since you never did this, you obviously don't know what you are talking about. It was always a great feeling to be in a show as a Cadet. And I remember how the older kids always gave us a great hand for just trying, which at that age is as good as winning.

What did you do in the Corps? Drum Major and Baritone

Horrid Little Corps. That line makes me sick.

These are kids who are going out and wearing ragged cloths not caring what others think just keeping the Racine Scouts alive.

I wonder if the kids in the big corps could swallow their pride and wear a raggid old uniform. Personally I think the big corps are loosing what drum corp is all about. I for one salute the kids of the Racine Scouts for having fun, learing something about drum corps, and marching with PRIDE. As Jimmy said we were one of those corps and I was one of those players who went out with the 25 other kids and kept the Imperials alive. When you see the big money corp marching down the street and the little corp wearing their raggid cloths think about who is really keeping the Drum Corp Spirit alive.

Mike

What did you do in the Corps? horn

What years were you a Corps member? 82-84

Well, Mike and Steve have it RIGHT about those little corps! AND, without the Cadets, the Imperials would have ended much earlier!

BTW .. the term "horrid little corps" was meant as a "tongue in cheek" reference! The alums should have understood that!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

But there is some truth to the fact that the people instructing these "horrid" corps could do better. Reading what Jimmy wrote about the last years of the Imperials makes me angry. And hearing that the Racine Scouts are still suffering is not cool either. How can so-called instructors let these poor kids on the field without a complete drum book or a complete drill? Sounds like management problems to me. There's plenty of good, cheap drum corps help out there, especially in an area with a population like Chicago.

Why can't some of the big corps share a bit of their teaching talents and various other wealths with a little corps, such as the oldest corps in the country, the Racine Scouts? Why not? Take a struggling corps under its wing and help it develop to respectability and soundness, in all ways. Why not? Couldn't the Madison Scouts look out for the Racine Scouts, helping them in various ways, for example... and/or other fairly local corps help? All should be done to help the existing corps survive, so that we don't lose any of them! There are lots of ways that the bigger corps could uplift the struggling corps.

I remember being taught by many age-outs during my Imperial career. It'd be good for drum corps for that to be continued. Building that drum corps community from the inside is a good thing.

The DCI ageouts DO teach other corps - but it's always other DCI corps.

And Madison is obviously having enough trouble keeping themselves alive right now...

Part of the problem is that people aren't in drum corps today for the same reasons most of us were - they're there for an education, and for something that looks good on their resume when going after band director jobs. The whole activity is completely different, so you can't really compare.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Is this true, Bob, of the Div. III (now called "Open Class") corps, too. Or, are THOSE kids marching for other reasons, maybe much like yours were?

As for the little corps, DCI does provide what was called, til this year, Division III, with their own competitions. Now it's called Open Class. I think they combined Div. II and Div. III this year and call it Open Class. So, it seems to me, the little corps do get to compete with each other without the World Class (used to be called Div. I) getting in their way.

Am I missing something re this?

Having followed Racine Drum Corps for the last decade or so I can tell you that Racine Scouts have been this way for at least the last ten years. Somehow they manage to find enough people to be allowed onto the competition field. I can recall one year where the corps director approached the Kilties looking for a few offspring of the adult Kilties willing to march in a competition so that they had the minmum 31 persons necessary to be able go on the field that night.
At last check they were still nursing along a bus that has to be at least thirty years old. I'd bet at least 50% of the members and staff are related to the director and the rest are from families that can't afford much to begin with. They rely on bingo to fund much of the corps and even that's hard when you have a casino from Milwaukee provide free transportaion from Racine to bigger and better bingo. On one hand you've got to give management credit for hanging on year after year but on the other hand maybe management is why the corps remains in the same rut year after year.

Bill,

There probably are some of those kids in the smaller corps. And even though they have their own class, it seems like they compete against the Big Boys more often than they do against each other, at least until championships week.

In our day, the smaller class corps competed within their own divisions, and there were always intermissions before and after to kind of let the audience know that there were different expectations. Do they still do this? They also announced the results by class, so there was no indication of how they related to the higher corps. I can remember scoring in the 40s with the Cadets, and there's NO WAY that was relative to the 70s that the bigger corps were getting, but the judges changed their standards so we didn't walk away with a 15.

Dave, you can probably comment better on this.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

In 1976 the cadets played in what was called the Round Robin. It was the Cavie Cadets, Phantom Reg. Cadets, Guardsmen Cadets, Kilties Kadets, Madsion Jr. Scouts and the Imperial Cadets. We were the only feeder corp that didn't have an A corp in the top twelve. I sure we were that HORRID LITTLE CORP that got to play with the big guys.

Bob, they do it the same way at contests (shows) nowadays... same as you describe here (just above).

Bob is righty .. the judging standards were "relaxed" for Cadet corps.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

The "Round Robin" that Cookie mentioned became CCI International! The Cadet Corps circuit. It was great!

AND, it was also great fun to judge them .. and help them to improve. Give them positive feedback. And some fun.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63