Jerry Davidson posted a really interesting post about "surprising (contest) results. I suppose that we have ALL seen what we'd consider "surprising" scores and placements! :)

See his post below:

" Correction from my last post. I was actually thinking of 1989 in Kansas City where I personally think Phantom got jobbed and by far had the best performance of the night. I was there and thought so then, and still believe it today. That seemed to be the worst example of how a great corps didn't get the credit deserved for the best performance of the night. Just seemed like a payback win for SC that year, because their best Phantom of the Opera show was a year earlier and they got their lunch handed to them by the judges that year, unfairly. SC was terrific in the semi-finals that year, but was ragged in their finals performance. Way too many audible and visual mistakes to overtake an almost flawless performance by Phantom. There were just way too many inconsistencies in the judging through those years to put that "one trick pony" tag on Phantom. I would have loved to march with any one of those 2nd place corps that Phantom had."
----------------------------------------------------

There can be times that the judges can hear and see things which the crowd doesn't (or MISS some things that the crowd DOES see).

But, IMHO, there are also times when the DCI practice of teaching, training and assigning judges is responsible. There is tremendous pressure on the judge to produce an "acceptable" score. They all know what the corps scores have been ... and they are "expected" to produce a score in that same range. Even an "improved" score as the corps improve week to week. If your score is "out of kilter", YOU will no longer be a judge! Hence, a top corps will most likely KEEP the high scores, even when people are tripping, etc. It would take a MAJOR collapse to change the "expected" score! Just my opinion!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

That's it! I'm voting for bringing in judges from Siberia and Iceland, etc., who know nothing about any of the corps.

How often I have felt that corps A is much better than corps B, on a certain night, only to have B beat A, seemingly because they always do. The crowd, in general, even sense this. Carolina Crown has been soooo good in recent years, and yet not getting recognized by the judges, it has seemed. They are one example of this.

Careful, Bill. Bringing in people who know NOTHING isn't a very good answer.

And, there really ARE times when the judges see and hear things that the "average fan" can't.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

Dave,
I agree that sometimes a judge hears things that a crowd doesn't see. I also know , as a former judge and band director myself, that when you become familiar with a show you sometimes expect a performance and give a score for more credit based on past viewings ( almost by instinct) rather than what actually happened that night. In the example I gave, under normal circumstances Santa Clara would have won on a decent margin in GE, Percussion and Marching. That night SC was off and had several obvious errors both visually and audibly. Phantom put on probably the best show in their long history. SC still won GE but by only .2, which should have opened the floodgates for Phantom. But very "surprisingly high" field brass and marching scores by SC kept them in the ball park. I saw semifinals and it wasn't a contest. SC blew them away. But in finals the reverse happened in reality, but the field music and visual judges must have thought they were judging GE, because from an execution standpoint SC had some very real problems and you even tell by the way Rondo sounded after SC had finished. His comment of " by tonight's performance Phantom Regiment has got to be considered the best corps in the world that didn't win the championship." That says volumes when you consider that they are there to sell the judges decision.

To this day, I think that stands out in my mind as the biggest ripoff, IMHO, of at the championships.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

BTW, I think you are right about the pressure that is on the DCI judge to make the 'right' decision with regard to their numbers. However, how many times do you think politics came heavily into play with who won at the championships, as well as who even made finals?

IMHO, too many times! It's as bad as watching an NBA game and see Lebron James take 3 1/2 steps and not get called for traveling, or Michael Jordan or Kobe driving to the lane and some poor ******* gets called for a foul who wasn't within 5 feet of them.

Too many "Phantom" (no pun intended...or is there?) calls in DCI for many to take the scores too seriously at least from a viewing standpoint. The people who really suffer for those unfortunate 'mistakes' are the ones that are out their busting their butts on the field.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

Being a judge is a hard job. I think they do good work on a whole. I'd say that 95% of the time I agree with the way they score in DCI, but not so much in other circuits. Actually I don't even watch the finale anymore, because I really don't care who wins or loses. I know who my favorites were and that’s enough for me.

The most surprising results I can remember:

Cavies beat Madison at VFW nationals 1980 in Hanson Stadium after losing to the Scouts soundly (more than 9 and a half points) in the DCI championships the previous night. My dad actually predicted this due to Cavies History in VFW. In my eyes, it wasn't even close.

Caballeros win DCA in 2003. They swept all captions even though there were corps on right before them that were obviously better than them. Of course in this case, it was also DM Jimmy Russo's last performance.

Madison takes fourth at DCM (DeKalb) after returning from Europe in 1988. They were hot and even my friends with Cavalier affiliations thought Madison won (I thought the Cavies were second best at that show and they took third). Star took second and Phantom won (Phantom used to always win that show or so it seemed). By the end of the season, Madison won the championship and the Cavies past PR and Star. But then again, this was DCM which always had some questionable judging.

I just noticed my top three aren't even DCI judged shows.

Maybe the most unbelievable scoring I ever saw was VFW in New Orleans, 1973. Belleville had just come from making DCI finals, but lost VFW to the Pembroke Imperials (from out East somewhere). It was VERY obvious that VFW was mad at DCI for stealing "their" championship, and Belleville paid for it.

Another one that nobody has ever explained was 1976. The Garfield Cadets were right up with the Cavaliers all year. In fact, they won VFW National prelims a week before DCI, although we won in finals that night (by tenths). A week later, we were 5th at DCI prelims, and Garfield didn't even make finals!

And I'm with Jim - on the rare occasion that I attend a drum corps show, I NEVER stay for the scores. I find that I leave much happier that way.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

They were handed a gift at 72 VFW also. Tony Schlecta really seemed to have an affinity with certain corps. Just like DCI, VFW had a history of questionable outcomes on the national level.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

VFW and A.L. National's placements were one of the big reasons that DCI was started.

Could be. And it looks like they traded strange VFW/AL results for strange DCI results!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

I'd say that DCI judging has been actually really good. I think that the standards set for judging in this circuit has been exceptional.

I haven't seen a show yet, but am looking forward to seeing the senior shows. We aren't being judged so that is a treat. I just play for the sheer enjoyment of playing again.

Oh, the judging. The judging is what it is designed by DCI to be, and serves who it supposed to serve. That about all I can say about it because I really don't care who wins, but something screwy almost always happens at finals or semis. Hopefully they get it right for all of the corps, not just the top 3 or 4. May the best corps win and be in finals, not just the politically correct ones. LOL

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager