There have been a number of comments on another thread about corps behavior in retreats. Mostly at DCI this year.

See the thread on "Whats he been smoking"?

But, RETREAT is WAY different now that it was 40 years ago. Back then, especially in the East, it was modeled after the military retreat ceremony of flag lowering. But, even in the Midwest, it was a fairly formal ceremony for giving contest results.

Maybe some alums would like to comments on this aspect of their corps experience?

As for me, I always enjoyed retreats. It was a lot like parades, a no pressure time to perform. It was, of course, MOST fun when the corps would WIN!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

There is no retreat, as such, at DCI finals... or at any DCI event. No flag is lowered. No attention is paid to the flag. Retreat, as such, is long gone... ancient history. To end the entire program, the kids play a patriotic song; that's it.

I recollect the grand finale (midwest version of retreat) as having each corps leave the field in reverse order of finish. Each corps paraded by the winner playing one of their songs with the drum major and color guard saluting the winner and the winning corps' drum major and color guard returning the salute. It was also an opportunity for the fans to acknowledge each corps. Don't ever recollect the flag being lowered in a ceremony at any show.

I really only recollect three events occurring at a retreat that were different than the norm.

1. In 1962 at Spring Valley IL when the Royal Airs had their first ever field victory over the Cavaliers (by 0.050), I recollect that after the second place Cavaliers passed in review, the Royal Airs formed up in their concert formation and played their entire show. I recollect that they were still on the field when we boarded the buses. We finished third so they were out on the field for a while.

2. In 1965 at Streator the Troopers beat the Royal Airs by 2 points with Norwood in third a point behind the Royal Airs. We felt that the Royal Airs and Norwood had been "jobbed" as we'd beat the Troopers the previous night by more than 2 points. So we followed the normal protocal by saluting the Troopers but when we got to the Royal Airs the Norwood also saluted the Royal Airs. Seem to recollect that we marked time and the horn and drum line did a half turn toward them. We got a nice letter from Truman Crawford thanking us for the acknowledgement. (In my time in the corps, the Cavaliers were never invited to Streator due to some previous off the field transgression).

3. In 1966 going into the Royal Airs sponsored contest we had changed our show and added Dancero as the out of concern number. We won that contest. After the last corps passed in review, we formed up in the concert formation and did the out of concert portion of our drill playing Dancero. We ended in a company front at the back of the field and then marched off in single file. I recollect this because Wally Pennington and I talked the two drum majors, Janice Spryzak and my sister, into doing this. We hadn't won a contest in about two weeks and this was a way of celebrating. I recollect that Rick Maass and the instructors had puzzled looks on their faces as we got into concert formation but I don't recollect them being upset that we exited the finale in that fashion.

What did you do in the Corps? Baritone

What years were you a Corps member? Cadets 1959 to 1961 Imperials 1962 to 1966

John, your "retreat"/ grand finale observations are correct. Midwest tradition was different than the East. See the 1963 Dream retreat picture used on our website and the CD jackets. That is the Eastern retreat shown. All corps (and the judges, etc.) saluting the flag in the retreat ceremony.

Yes, all the corps exited in reverse order of finish and saluted the winning corps. There were times when this practice allowed some additional "statements" .. such as those you described.

Sometimes a "drum majors only" finale was held, usually because of bad weather.

Also, there were times when one corps was selected to "play the corps on" for finale. It often was the "host corps".

I remember when DCI began using the "Olympic entry" where all the corps came on in single file, passed in front of the stands then went around to their spots on the field. It became a tradition to see which corps could be the LAST to take it's position on the field.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

Just like today!

Even though that is my picture of the Dream Contest, I never really though of why the judges would be saluting and color guards dipping all flags except American Flag. Did we do that at VFW Nationals in 1962 and 1966? I don't recollect.

I always assumed DCI had a different finale/retreat to accomodate the live televison on PBS. I've only been at one DCI championship contest and that was Philadelphia in 1976. I recollect that show having a grand finale similar to the mid-west in the 1960s. That was pretty early in DCI's existence and there were likely still some of the old traditions that were followed.

One thing I do remember DCI doing in the PBS broadcast was the massed corps playing an arrangement of American the Beautiful and O Canada before they announced the scores. Really nice presentation. I don't remeber this being done in 1976. Funny, the combined arrangement would have really been appropriate for that 1976 show as there were two Canadian corps in the finals--Oakland and Seneca.

Possible topic. What happened to those "World Class" Canadian corps like Oakland and Seneca? I don't have a clue and other than that 1976 show, don't remember Canadian corps in subsequent finals competition.

What did you do in the Corps? Baritone

What years were you a Corps member? Cadets 1959 to 1961 Imperials 1962 to 1966

1976 was the first year I remember being in the Olympic-style retreats (we called them Nazi Youth Party retreats). I always preferred the older kind (surprise!) where everyone would line up on the back line and be played forward by one corps, usually the host. This also lead to some fun. In 1975, we (Cavaliers) had a song in our show in 5/8 and 7/8 time, so that to march to it your feet were on the downbeat in one measure and the upbeat the next. Tough for many of our own guys to handle, and next to impossible if you weren't used to it! DCI finally asked us to stop doing that, because it making the other corps look bad.

Hey, we weren't terribly competitive at that stage, so we had to have fun SOMEHOW! And that was harmless - we weren't openly mocking other corps or anything like that.

But until the 80s, the retreats/finales were still fairly military, with corps standing at attention or parade rest throughout. In those days, it was the Drum Majors who would compete to see who could arrive last! And between certain corps, whoever won would count how many horn players were giving the finger as they passed in review after the scores.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Bob Shreffler recently posted:

I really miss the full-corps finales where we lined up on the back sideline and all marched forward together with one corps - usually the host or the exhibition unit - playing everyone forward. If there was no host, the defending champ would do it, if they were there. And they usually were there, because everybody pretty much went to the same shows every year!

Ah, the good old days...

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This is one aspect of drum corps which has really changed through the years.

. in the early days, these were called "retreat" .. as in the MILITARY form of retreat. It included lowering the US flag and giving a military salute. All the corps played themselves onto the field and lined up for the contest placement and awards, staying at parade rest. For this, ALL members participated, even subs.

. Later, the military aspects were stopped (but continued on the East coast for many years).

. Retreats became "finales" and the corps were played on together by a single corps (usually the host corps or an exhibition corps). And, yes, the DMs liked to play the "who can arrive last at the front" game.

. For a while, they used an Olympic review approach where all the corps filed on together, passing the front stands. The corps liked to have fun with this too ... stretching out the corps so they could be the "last" to get into position. (Bob Briske hated when that happened!)

. After the scores were announced, each corps played itself off the field, passing the winning corps to salute. At times, the winning corps would move to midfield and give a short concert. The crowds liked that.

. Now, most shows have NO real finale because the corps have packed up and moved on to their next show!
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What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958 -1963

I remember at a show a couple years ago, when I was talking with a guy who had aged-out of Phantom Regiment the year before, he told me that he had NEVER seen any other corps perform, the entire summer long. That amazed me. By the time the shows end, some of the corps are miles away, already, driving to their next city. The closest thing to a retreat is what happens at DCI Finals, and that's once per summer.

The better the corps you were in, the fewer other corps you saw during the summer. Performance order at a show used to be determined by luck of the draw, except that the defending champ usually got to go on last. Then they started going on in reverse order of finish at the previous year's championship.

I knew I was in a much better corps in 1980 when I was at the school watching DCI finals while I shined my shoes - for the same show later that night!

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

NOT SEEING the other corps, especially all summer, seems really strange to me. When I marched, one of the best things about the drum corps experience was seeing the other corps perform .... what they did, how they did, etc.

Since we usually stayed at the same schools, etc ..we saw them all day too. At the parades (remember those?), lining up, marching by, etc; at practices; hanging around.

The members today seem very isolated from it all.

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What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958 -1963

Yeah, it's a shame that the performers don't get to see the other corps perform. The young man of whom I spoke told me that the first time he saw other corps perform was on the DVD of the DCI Finals, after the season was over.

A lot of the various corps' youngsters seem to know each other, judging by the ways they mingle with each other at times, in the parking lots, etc.

Nothing better than having them Green Guys pass in front of you at the end of retreat. I remember out east lining up single file 6 corps deep side by side coming in from both sides of the stadium and filing into your position on the field.

Dave your comment about seeing the other Corps
perform,I always enjoyed that myself as well.
I can remember at times when a bunch of us would be
sitting together in part of the stands watching some
of the Corps performing and than someone from
management rounding us to go get dressed,because it
was getting close to the time we had to go on.

Yes it was nice for all the Corps being at the same
school and seeing everyone,even though there was a
we didn't care for to much,but it was still fun.

What did you do in the Corps? French Horn

What years were you a Corps member? 1957 thru 1963