Bill Shafer on another thread mentioned that the Cavaliers have the most titles in drum corps history. I did a little checking, and the results are interesting.

Yes, the Cavaliers have the most since 1948, when you include American Legion, VFW, and DCI (the three most prestigious titles available through the years.

Cavaliers 20 (3 AL, 10 VFW, 7 DCI)
Holy Name/Garfield/Cadets 16 (7 AL, 9 DCI)
Blue Devils 12 (All DCI)

It's interesting that the Cadets won their 7 AL titles between 1949 and 1964, and then didn't win another title (their first DCI) until 1983. Have to give them credit for hanging around that long between wins. Cavaliers last won VFW in 1980 and didn't win DCI until 1992, but their last "real" win in VFW (when it still mattered) was 1967.

After those three, the list gets very interesting.

Blessed Sac 10 (7 AL, 3 VFW)
St. Vincents 8 (2 AL, 6 VFW)
Santa Clara Vanguard 8 (1 AL, 1 VFW, 6 DCI)

Sac won 6 of their 7 AL titles consecutively, from 54-59, and the other in 63. They folded in 1973. So despite how long they've been gone, and how long since their last championship, to still be 4th all-time is fascinating. Same thing with St. Vincents, who folded in the late 50's and won their last title in 1956, but are still tied for 5th all-time.

OK, I'm bored because we're off school today for the storm but of course administrators still had to report! But this is great stuff!

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

I believe I had a similar posting on this topic on another thread.

I broke it down between pre-DCI and post-DCI. Before DCI there were two National Champions per year (Legion and VFW) and for a time in the 1960s a CYO championship. During the pre-DCI years it was very seldom that all the major corps competed in both AL and VFW championships. The level of competion varied primarily depending on where the AL or Legion had their conventions and the time--AL tended to occur in Sept after the kids were back in school.

My numbers were the same as yours but I'd put Blessed Sacrament first in Legion and VFW championships and Blue Devils first in DCI because the eras were so much different. I'd argue that the Cavaliers were most dominant though over a ten year period which is essentially the 1960s. Also there were some years when the winner of the VFW championship never competed against the Legion winner. I think that happened in 1963 when the Cavaliers won VFW and Sac Legion. I've heard arguments that the Kilties might have won that year--they defeated the Cavaliers in early August, but they didn't go to either Seattle in late August or Miami in September.

Corps like the Cadets and Cavaliers overlap the two eras but many of their early championships didn't have all of the top programs engaged in the competition which is now the case with DCI.

What did you do in the Corps? Baritone

What years were you a Corps member? Cadets 1959 to 1961 Imperials 1962 to 1966

Keep on going; I'm enjoying this. Interesting. I'm always trying to learn. Thanks.

Many corps - especially in the early years - were loyal to their sponsor, either AL or VFW, and they often never competed for the other title. For example, Garfield and Sac were mainly AL corps, while St. Vincents was mainly VFW. It wasn't until the late 50s, and especially the 60s, when corps regularly competed for both titles. Part of the reason was loyalty, and part was different rules between the two veterans' groups, especially regarding timing. Rather than learn two different shows, corps only competed under one set of rules. Although VFW was generally the more prestigious title, most of the shows were eventually judged on AL sheets (weird fact).

DCI eliminated many of these things, which were some of the positives of the orgainization at the start. Corps could compete under one set of rules, and everyone went to the championship, so there was no "what if this corps had come?" A couple of potential finalists missed the first year or two, but they wouldn't have had a chance to win (Blue Rock, in particular). After 1973, I don't think any corps with a shot at the top 12 ever missed again.

And, as John points out, AL was often held after the start of the school year, and sometimes in weird places (Hawaii, Paris) where corps couldn't or wouldn't travel.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Ok Bob, when did the American Legion hold it's convention in Paris and what corps won the junior and senior titles?

What did you do in the Corps? Baritone

What years were you a Corps member? Cadets 1959 to 1961 Imperials 1962 to 1966

1927 - Harvey Seeds Rebels won the Senior Championship; the AL hadn't started having junior corps yet.

Thank you Jodeen Popp!

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Sounds like something for a drum corps trival pursuit game. Add this to the Cavaliers baton twirlers and the girls in Madison. Wonder if a boy ever marched in the Audobon Bon Bons or one of the other female corps.

I think I can understand why the American Legion had it's convention in Paris in 1927. My guess it was the 10th anniversary of the start of World War I and since most of the fighting was in France it was probably a good location for the veterans primarily to honor their fallen comrades.

Now there's a great idea, John! Drum corps trivial pursuit! Now, if only I could find anyone within a hundred miles of here who knows the first thing about drum corps or even cares! Solitare drum corps trivial pursuit?

John, looks like HISTORY isn't your subject! WW1 started in 1914 and ended in 1918.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

In that particular war... Who won? Who took 2nd? Who took 3rd? Who took 4th? Were there any ties? Maybe ties weren't allowed then?

In WW1, everybody lost!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

My recollection is that US didn't get involved until the last year or so.

Anyway, it must have been a big deal for the Legion to convene in Paris. No way they'd meet in Paris today. A few yeats back, I recollect some French politician suggesting the US dig up the bodies of their WW I and WWII vets and take them back to the US.

What did you do in the Corps? Baritone

What years were you a Corps member? Cadets 1959 to 1961 Imperials 1962 to 1966

They'd have to dig up 3/4 of France to do that, wouldn't they?!

Good thing it was "the war to end all wars!"

Will the French still allow our corps to use their horns?

If it wasn't for those WW1 and WW2 US soldiers, the French would now be speaking GERMAN!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

I think it's sort of a tie between the US and France. When you make the comment suggesting they'd be speaking German without the US, they come back with the fact the US wouldn't exist without the French Fleet sitting in Cheasapeke Bay behind the British at Yorktown during the American Revolution. Both are correct points.

Anyway this discussion has gone off on a tangent from the topic.

What did you do in the Corps? Baritone

What years were you a Corps member? Cadets 1959 to 1961 Imperials 1962 to 1966

John, you are correct on both points!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

Look for a possible new posting on the Imperials website showing all past champions, and NP placings too

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

Just finished a final review of the "Champions" piece. Here are some interesting facts:

While there are many corps which have won titles, and also many corps with great impact, there are only a few which have had a major lasting impact, with MANY titles over the years.

Cavaliers (1948- present) - 19 titles
Holy Name/Garfield Cadets (1940- present) - 18 titles
Blue Devils (1970- present) - 12 titles
Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights (1948-70) - 9 titles
St. Vincent Cadets (1946-60) - 8 titles
Santa Clara Vanguard (1968=present) - 9 titles

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

Oops, made an error and didn't count two AL titles for St. Vincents! Corrected totals are

Cavaliers (1948- present) - 19 titles
Holy Name/Garfield Cadets (1940- present) - 18 titles
Blue Devils (1970- present) - 12 titles
St. Vincent Cadets (1946-60) - 10 titles
Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights (1948-70) - 9 titles
Santa Clara Vanguard (1968-present) - 9 titles

Do the math to see who is the "winningest" corps over the years!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

Did anyone look at the math?

St Vincents averaged a national championship every 1.5 years during their life (15 years)!

That means that they were almost ALWAYS the champion during their life. Wow!

That rate is about twice the rate of Blessed Sacrament, Holy Name (Garfield), Cavaliers, and Blue Devils. !! (AQbout 3.2 years each)

Santa Clara isn't even close at an average of 5.0 years!

Of course, this wouldn't be possible now, but if the St. Vincents corps had continued and had performed at that rate .. they would have won another 32 National Titles!!

That would be a total now of 42!!!!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63