Here is a simple question for you to think about.

Not counting Imperials, what was your favorite corps to watch in the 70s, 80s, 90s and now? and Why?



I'll Start it off.

70s:
Anaheim Kingsmen - They had a great style and fantastic arrangements as well as their horn line and drum lines.

Racine Kilties - They had great arrangements, fantastic horn lines and a distinctive marching style.

Santa Clara - Read reasoning below

80s:

Phantom Regiment - They were consistently solid through the decade and with many outstanding shows and horn lines. I still think they should have won in 1989 with the "New World" show.

Santa Clara - What can one say, they revolutionized the activity during both the 70s and 80s. Their drum lines were great in both decades.

Blue Devils - Simply the hottest horn line consistently ever in drum corps. They were excellent in all captions, with the exception of the last 2 years of the decade.

90s:

Blue Devils - For same reasons as above, and they got better!

Star of Indiana - They were a flash in the pan historically speaking, but performed some truly excellent shows, with the exception of the Bartok show. What a great horn line they had.

Cadets - Now I know this is controversial, but their horn line was fantastic and they did some truly great drill moves. I loved some of their programs (minus the over dependence on visual)

Now:

Blue Devils - nuff said on them

Phantom Regiment - For having the fortitude to buck the trend and play music that was indeed musical and crowd relative. You have to give them some credit for this years victory.

Cavaliers - They finally grew a horn line and their marching has been incredible. I still am not a big Cavie fan, but you have to give them credit for being so strong through the decade in all captions.


What do you think???

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

Hey Jerry.... Do we exclude the 1960's?

My favorites are 1965 Royal-Airs and the mid 1980's Garfield Cadets (I believe 84-85)....anyway, it was the years they performed West Side Story! Both corps were unreal!

What did you do in the Corps? soprano

What years were you a Corps member? 61-62/Cadets....63-67/Imperials

Jerry: Great question! Will give this more thought, but I like most of your selections. Also agree with Billy .. include the 1960s!

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

Well, I will probably bore most alums but I also have my favorites. Of course,I am influenced by great drum lines and by appealing show design. I don't care for the "new" drum corps, so my favorites are from the "older days".

For what it is worth, here is MY list (grouped by decades):

1. St. Kevin’s Emerald Knights (Boston). 1960s. Great uniforms (Christmas tree look). Excellent brass (French horns!) Who could ever forget “Star and Stripes” or “South Rampart Street Parade” (concert)? A fun corps.

2. Holy Name / Garfield Cadets. 1950s and 60s, then again in the 1980s. Great tradition. Excellent uniforms. Maroon! Great brass and marching.

3. Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights. 1950s and 60s. Great brass and drums! Execution! Introduced great new musical programs. Truly excellent.

4. Royal Airs. 1960s. Lasted for a short time, but had an immense impact on show design. Great brass and programs. Exciting.

5. Boston Crusaders. 1960s. Great drum lines. Spirit, brass! Excellent shows. Really fun to watch. They have started to come back in recent years.

6. Black Knights. 1960s. Yes, they lasted until the late 70s, but what I remember is their shows in the 1960s. Great brass and drums, excellent show design and fine uniforms. Great spirit too.

7. Racine Kilties. This corps had a unique style (including uniforms and marching style) since the 1950s. In the 1960s they were great, with excellent brass and drums. Great shows too.

8. Anaheim Kingsmen. Early 1970s. Great drum lines, excellent brass as well. Fine shows and spirit. Too bad they folded.

9. Argonne Rebels. 1970s. Wow! What a brass line and terrific shows. Terrible drums and average marching. If they had fixed those, they would have won MANY championships. Who can forget “Jesus Christ, Superstar” as they did it?

10. Santa Clara Vanguard . 1970s. Yes, they have been good for a lot of years, but to me they were BEST in the 1970s. Great music and excellent (Fred Sanford) drum lines. Fine marching and great show design under Gail Royer. Bottle Dance!

11. Madison Scouts. 1970s and 1980s. (Actually, they were great in the early 1960s too!) Great brass and show design. Excellent drum lines in the 1970s. Preferred the old Scout uniforms. Glad to see them making a comeback.

12. Blue Stars (LaCrosse). 1970s. Great spirit and great musical shows. Fine brass and drums.

13. Des Plaines Vanguard. 1970s. This corps had been around for many years and really got hot in the 70s. Great brass and excellent shows, Fun to watch.

14. Spirit of Atlanta. 1980s. A really fun corps to watch. Great music and brass. Often, great drums! Great (different) show design.

15. Concord Blue Devils. 1980s and forever. This corps has had an immense impact on drum corps for many years. Excellent brass and percussion. Great show design. Marching programs with real precision. Channel One Suite in the 1980s! So many great tunes through the years.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

1960s

Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights--1960, 1963 and 1964. Greatest Hornlines of their era. 63 and 64 concert--"Let's Face the Music and Dance" and "Give Me the Simple Life" was fantastic. Bill Hayes and Jim Day were the Wayne Downey of the sixites

1970s

tie between the 1975 and 1976 Madison Scouts and the Blue Devils from 1976. When I saw Madison in Evanston in 1975, I thought they were the best corps I'd ever seen. Of course that changed when I watched the Blue Devils win DCI in 1976

1980s to present The Blue Devils

Honorable Mention

1980 Spirit of Alanta and Madison (saw Atlanta, Madison and the Blue Devils at Stillwater MN that year).

1990s Madison "City of Angels" Show

2002 Cadet's show--"Tribute to New York City" after 911.

What did you do in the Corps? Baritone

What years were you a Corps member? Cadets 59-61 Imperials 62-66

OK! Add the 60s to spice it up more.

My choices for the 60's

St. Kevins - Really crowd related shows with blazing brass.

Racine Kilties - 3 VFW Championships, amazing look and style and The magnificent sound they had from Ken Norman and that amazing Hornline.

Des Plaines Vanguard - I liked them a great deal in 68 & 69. They were hot.

Royal Airs - Fantastic in both 65 & 68

In the 70s I have to add Argonne just because of their second to none hornline.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

Please allow me to add a corps that many of us forget and they WERE excellent.

For the 60s and early 70s I add The Casper Troopers. The best marching & maneuvering group of that era. Their marching and brass execution instantly adds them to the group.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

1960s - OK, I'll catch heck for this (as usual), but it HAS to be the Cavaliers. They were the first corps I ever saw (a 1967 parade with my Dad), and they made an immediate impression. Their 1966-67 shows were classics, and only a flag penalty kept them from winning BOTH nationals both years. But I think MANY midwest corps were great in those years, and the Top 4 album could stand as the greatest example of shows from that era easily.

1970s - Santa Clara Vanguard (especially from a drummer's standpoint). Their 1975 drum line was just plain scary good. Of course, at the end of the decade the Blue Devils started to rewrite what we thought drum corps could be, but it was SCV who first raised the standard to unheard of levels.

1980s - Garfield/Bergen County/The Cadets. I still think their 1984 West Side Story show may be THE greatest ever, and I wish drum corps would have stopped right there, because since then, it's gotten a little out of control artistically. That show was innovative, state-of-the-art, set new standards, but was STILL recognizable by the average fan.

1990s - Star raised the bar again, but lost everyone along the way. This decade saw more flux between champions and styles. I think this is when DCI lost its way.

2000s - at least so far, it has to be the Cavaliers again. NOBODY marches like they do, and the drum and horn lines have stayed good enough to rack up titles or at least stay close.

Having said all that, there are certainly other corps who have made their marks.

1960s - Troopers, Royal Airs (unfortunately for too short of a time)

1970s - Anaheim (see Royal Airs), Madison

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Not really about "favorites", but it was always fun to see eastern corps during the 1950s and 1960s. In those days, their styles were significantly different from midwestern.

In fact, in those days, each corps had their own unique "sound". You could tell which corps was coming up the street without even seeing them .. just by their sound. and music. This was true of Garfield, BS, St. Vincents, St. Kevins, Kilts, Norwood, Cavaliers, Madison ,Belleville and more.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958- 63

Good point Dave!

Gone are the days when one could name the corps without seeing them. The corps back then had distinctive qualities that separated them from the other corps. You COULD tell who the corps was if you closed your eyes and just listened. I think that was great for the activity because it forced the judges to judge the corps according to their actual performance capabilities, not whether they fit the mold as it is today. I really can only distinguish one or two corps by their sound and that would be Blue Devils and maybe Phantom.....but even that might be a stretch.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

That uniqueness continued at least into the early 70s. If you listen to DCI albums from 72, 73, and a little still in 74, you can tell the difference between midwest and eastern corps. Maybe not individual corps from those regions, but the area they were from. This was especially true of the Muchachos, although that may have been because their players were all much older and experienced than everyone else (insert rimshot here).

And the Kilties tended to stand out, too, because their horn lines were smoother than many other corps.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

I think you are right Bob. I also think you could go into the late 70s with many. Madison, SC, Phantom and Blue Devils were easily recognizable from outside the stadium. I know there were more, I just am having a senior moment and am having some trouble remembering which ones retained their musical style and sound. I know when I am on the road somewhere I will remember a few, but those four came to mind from the late 70s. I added Phantom because they established their bass horn heavy/classical sound and their horn line was recognizable for it's Jim Wren sound.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

I think a point we may be missing here is the fact that certain brass sections had distinctive sounds that can be directly tied to their brass staff or in particular one main instructor. In the case of Kilties, the sound was established, molded and refined by Ken Norman. With Argonne it was Sandra Opie. With Madison it was Ray Baumgardt and the main tech whom I can't remember his name. Cavaliers had a particular sound in the 60s because of Sal Ferarra. Phantom because of Jim Wren. Santa Clara because of Gail Royer. Blue Devils because of Wayne Downey. Royal Airs because of Truman Crawford. ETC. Can you think of more?

Those instructors were very strict on how their lines performed and what their horn lines sounded like. I remember Ken Norman more specifically because I marched in Kilties and he was a real bear about how we approached a phrase, our tone quality as well as how we articulated passages in the music. I'm sure it was the same with all of the others. I remember watching Sandra Opie work the Argonne brass section and she was VERY strict! It was her way or the highway.

In many instances, the level of performance and overall competitiveness can be traced back to those "Icon" instructors. It can be evidenced by the rapid decline of certain corps when they changed head instructors or long time instructors either retired or were replaced.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

I will add Bill Hayes for Blessed Sacrament (up until about 1960) and then Jim Day who followed him up until ahout 1965. Don't have the full story on either of them but I do believe that Jim Day was relatively young when he took over the hornline and was Hayes' protogee. My observation is that SAC started to decline after 1966 when Day wasn't involved--arrangement and sound changed.

Also Garfield had Angelica up until about 1964 when he started working with the Troopers. I recollect attenting a Garfield brass practice the evening after the Dream Contest in 1963. He ran that practice much more professionally than I'd observed in Norwood. Probably because his regular job was as a school music teacher. Also recollect kids could challenge another player for solo parts.

We had a mini-version of this with Norwood as brass arrangements and instruction changed when Pennington was engaged from mid-1964 through 1966. He went on to serve as an instructor with Sandra Opie at Argonne.

As Jerry says, the sound is based on the arranger/instructor.

Also, the successful corps in the early 60s -- Sac, Cavaliers, Garfield, St Kevin's. Tended to have arrangers who knew how to write for the instruments.

We also can't forget Hy Drietzer of the Skyliners and the arranger (Angelica?) for Hawthrone in the early 60s. The senior corps brasslines and drumlines in the East were much stronger than the junior corps. All that changed in the early 70s when DCI was just starting. I recollect seeing Argonne win American Legion Nationals in 1972 in Chicago and they scored higher than Rochester and Hawthorne--top 2 Eastern Senior corps. I think Argonne was in 5th place at DCI that year. So the Kingsmen, Santa Clara, Blue Stars and 27th Lancers were probably stronger than the senior corps by that time.

One of the main examples of what Jerry's talking about happened with Spirit of Atlanta. When Jim Ott was killed on tour in 1980, and corps began a quick and fatal decline the following year, dropping from 4th to 9th, then out of finals completely. Tom Float stayed around one more year in 81 to keep the corps afloat (no pun intended), then left for Blue Devils.

And the same points could be made about drum lines. Float's lines played lots of notes and flashy stick stuff, while Fred Sanford's were more musical but not nearly as rudimental. Phantom's timpani lines were always incredible. The mid-70s Cavalier lines played more notes than the rest of the top 12 combined, but not with the musicality, and because of the different, higher stick style, with a very different sound. In earlier times, Boston's drum lines played some really strange stuff, later continued by North Star.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Speaking of Jim Ott I totally agree with Bob, it WAS amazing how fast Spirit of Atlanta went down after his tragic death. Another that we may have overlooked as an example is Gale Royer. SCV has always been good, but they took a major dip when Royer retired. The distinctive sound that they once had died when Gail retired and passed away a couple of years later. He had a major impact on that corps musical identity and SCV still seems to be searching for their identity musically. Also Phantom Regiment is still very very good, but they also took a tumble and lost their recognizable sound when Jim Wren turned the horn line over to less experienced hands. Another is Kilts. When they felt that they wanted to go in a different direction and let Ken Norman go, the corps went into a monster tail spin and eventually folded. Ken Norman was the glue that held Kilts together. His talent transcended just brass as he could also write some kick ass drum parts and actually rewrote some of our drill one year.

It is impossible to talk about corps without including in the conversations the talented instructors who led the corps during the years that they were most successful. It wasn't by accident that they got so good during the tenure of these amazingly talented individuals.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

Make me think about why DCI doesn't add instructors who weren't corps directors, but had an amazing impact on their respective corps to their hall of fame. Pretty much I would guess many of the real "Icon" instructors wouldn't support the DCI model for much of anything.

Some folks (small list) who should be there, if they aren't already:

Ken Norman - Kilts
Hy Dreitzer - Boston Crusaders
Sal Ferarra - Cavaliers
Mike Duffy - Anaheim & Blue Stars
Rocco Olivario - Anaheim
Jerry Shelmer - Boston Crusaders
Al LeMert - Des Plaines, Kilts, Troopers, Guardsmen etc.
Sandra Opie - Argonne Rebels
Jim Wedge - 27th Lancers

This is just a sampling of the proposed list and obviously not all inclusive. I haven't seen the dci hall lately and am not sure that one or two of these individuals are not already in there, but it seems that only the fringe instructors who served the cause of DCI (as seen only by dci) are the only ones in the site. Others. like Rick Maas are there for their contributions to DCI and not past accomplishments as instructors or leaders, just for DCI as a judge or show coordinator, etc. I am sure all of you could come up with many more names and I think it is high time that these individuals are recognized for being the trailblazers for the activity that they were.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager