Norwood Park Imperials Alumni Forum
If you click on the Message Topic (first column in the table below) then you will see all of the messages for that Topic. You can then add your own comment by clicking the REPLY button for any message. If you click the QUOTE button on a message, that message will be copied into your reply so that it's clear what your reply is about.
You can start a New Topic as well. Just click the START A NEW POST link below.
All we ask is that you keep it neat, clean, polite, and reasonably intelligent.
1965 was a really major year for the Imperials. After a down year, the Corps had rebounded and was doing really well.
What if ...we had WON the July 5 show in Milwaukee (where we lost the Cavaliers by .1)
What if ... we had won the Elmhurst show 2 days before VFW Nationals?
What if ... our corps members had not insulted Don Angelica, who then told his judge friends that our corps should be dumped? (rumor)
MAYBE, we would have been much higher than 11th at Nationals?
Well, the truth is that the corps has done well and has played a big part in the lives of it's members. THAT IS WHAT IS MEANINGFUL AND IMPORTANT! 
What did you do in the Corps? drummer
What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63
GOOD POINT, LARRY. I AGREE THAT WITH A REAL DRUM CORPS SHOW, THE IMPERIALS WOULD HAVE DONE BETTER. AT LEAST IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE FUN! 
BUT, I THINK THAT THE "JUDGES DECK" MAY HAVE BEEN STACKED AGAINST US.
What did you do in the Corps? drummer
What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63
Larry: you wrote ..
Dave, I knew nothing about the situation with the judges, and still don't understand it. Perhaps you could elaborate?
.........I will post some thoughts on this in reply to you and John.
And, why are you shouting? We aren't THAT old - yet!
....... I am not shouting (as you put it). I tend to use capital letters so I can read the stuff more easily. MY eyes aren't really good, especially on the PC 
What did you do in the Corps? drummer
What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63
Re: 1965 VFW Nationals ....yes, a sad time.
The rain turned the contest into an indoor event (as had happened before in our history). This time, it was not good.
The judges for VFW seemed to be biased against Norwood due to an event earlier in the year. Don Angelica (a popular eastern judge) was insulted by some Imperials ... in Ottawa, I think. (Not sure).
But, he told his eastern friends and some of them were judgiing at VFW. The word seems to have been spread that Norwood needed to be put down. And, we were. :(
VFW judges then were selected by the VFW Committee, by Tony Schlecta.These people were all his friends and that is how it was. Call it "politics", call it friendship, or connections, whatever. It happened.
What did you do in the Corps? drummer
What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63
Dave,
This kind of question, although it's fun to talk about the "what ifs", is just like John said, it's like the question of that fly ball in the Cubs playoff game made a difference in the game. The fact is that if the Cubs had been ahead by 5 runs, they would have won. Also the outfielder when he left the Cubs admitted that the guy really didn't effect the outcome. There are tons of these types of theories out there with regard to the judges, many of which have merit.
I'm not putting down your theory, I'm just saying that I don't know of one corps that doesn't think they were jobbed at a major contest. I can imagine that Santa Clara could wonder about the 72 DCI championship results since they hadn't lost to Anaheim all year. Or Blue Devils would have some basis for complaint because they only lost once the entire year and both their world class and open class corps were odds on favorites to win, but amazingly both lost on the last day of the year. How many times have corps gone into finals undefeated and lost on the last day? Those people have a reason to wonder about the results and whether there was some bias involved.
The point is, we all have experienced these kinds of shows and results and fellows like Don Angelica. Don Angelica is in the DCI Hall of Fame, but we can see that he probably had five acts of favoritism and bias for every honest evaluation he made. Jump in the line. There are plenty of corps that were victims of Don and his gang's rumor mill and basically on their Sh---T list.
Each of these instances, and I can come up easily with ten right off the top of my head, were a travesty of justice and only effected the kids who marched the show. I always thought that drum corps was more or less legitimate until we ran into Don and the Eastern Judges at Shriners. We were warned that if we were in the Midwest we would beat these corps, but don't expect to beat them tonight. We didn't believe it, but were in 6th place. The next night in New York with a different set of judges we were in first. Go figure! Same stuff would happen in Wisconsin and Illinois. Illinois corps wouldn't win in Wisconsin very often and visa versa. There were even regional biases within the midwest judges. That's the problem with a subjective system or any system where corps bias gets in the way of accurate adjudication.
I guess what I am trying to say is that this kind of stuff happened all the time. Certain judges just saw themselves as king makers. It's politics as usual and at it's worst.
What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager
To reply to John about Angelica, Royer and Fabrizio being in DCI's hall of fame.....well in some cases it looks at time like a hall of shame.
I can see Royer making it because of his contributions to Santa Clara Vanguard. They were a power when he was their director, plain and simple. I would be remiss however if I didn't say that several shows were out of Kilter (no pun....well maybe it is intended) when he judged. He was not a good example of an unbiased judge.
Fabrizio was an East coast person through and through. He was a middle level judge who couldn't find the best horn line in a show if came up and bit him on the butt. As an instructor with St. Joes, he was great as well as with other corps that he worked with and wrote for. So I would put a question mark after his name.
The MAJOR question mark was with the selection of Don Angelica. Many can say that he changed the way people looked at drum corps and changed the direction of drum corps. Well, you could really make a case for that.
HOWEVER, the ill that he caused far outweighed any good he did. We all have heard of judges who would give scores based on where they thought the corps would place in finals....i.e. slotting. Angelica was the king of slotting! He would manipulate scores and other judges scores to not only alter the outcome of a particular years championship show, but he would manipulate scores to try to force the activity into the direction that HE decided was best. If a corps was doing what Don told them to do in his travels and "visits" with other heavyweight judges at certain corps winter camps, then he would pave the way. If they didn't alter their show to meet HIS expectations, they would get the dumper treatment. If pressed I could give 3 excellent examples of how he pressured 3 different top corps to program their shows in a certain way, and when of if they didn't, they would suffer the wrath of Don and the band of simpleton judges who followed him around like slobbering idiots. Sorta like Obamamania that we are experiencing. To make a long story short, DCI made a big mistake by promoting Don as their chief judge for so many years. It gave him the power to alter how corps placed, based on his own bias toward a more visual concept. I would say that in my opinion, if I had to choose one individual who did the most damage to the activity from a judging and performances standpoint it would be Don. He was called "The Don" for no good reason. Just think of him as The Godfather of drum corps, with his gang of boys.
Sorry of this is too direct or what some might find offensive. I saw too many cases where he trashed good corps to accept him in the same light as DCI has with his selection to the hall of fame. With him it truly is the hall of shame.
What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager
Well, regardless of the "what ifs" and the problems.... 1965 was a FINE year for the corps. Great show. Great kids. Great staff. Lots of fun!!
I had a great time teaching and working with this corps. Some of my best Corps memories. 
What did you do in the Corps? drummer
What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63
