As many of you know, Jim Fiduccia and some members of the alumni team have been working together to provide a more expansive corps history of the Imperials in the 70s for the website. I have been selected to help put the document into it's final form, which brings me to the reason for this email.

We have a real need for accurate information regarding the Imperials in the years 1970 through 1975, as well as recollections from all other years in the decade.

If you participated and can remember some of the more interesting facts regarding the corps from an organizational, performance and competitive standpoint, we need to hear from you. Any information is good as it helps paint an accurate description of what happened in the corps during that time span.

I know there are some of you who marched during those years, so here is your opportunity to help and make contact with us to add the missing details for the history from those years. We need details regarding organization leaders, instructors, membership accomplishments, funny stories from performances, rehearsal areas, performance score ranges, contests or tours etc.
Even if it is just a humerous event or list of contests you competed in and where you placed, we could use and would greatly appreciate any accurate information regarding those years. To form a comprehensive history, we need facts which those working on the project cannot provide because we weren't in the corps at that time. Those of you who were can help us fill in the gaps.

Any information you have can either be posted here or sent to me via the email module here in the forum. If you don't know how to work that, feel free to pass any recollections along to me at jdavid1027@sbcglobal.net

Thanks for your help in advance.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

We still need help folks!

This thread has been read over 20 times, but only one person has stepped forward with any information that can be included in the 70s history. I know more people have info that that, and no matter how small the item might seem to be, it helps paint an accurate representation of the decade and years within the decade.

If you go to the opening page and read the 70s section of the corps history, you will find that it is woefully short on substance, facts and accomplishments.

Jim Fiduccia and I are working very closely together and have exchanged quite a few emails on the subject, while Bob, Dave and Larry have sent in information and feedback also. Larry and I have even restored full corps portraits of many of the corps of that decade that were in Jim's collection for the project, which have been added and can be seen in the 70s photo album.

We just need information, photos, and facts from the earlier periods of the decade so we can put together a history of the 70s that you will all be proud of.

Again, If you have ANY information with regard to any years of the 70s, please pass it along and share it. We want this segment of the Imperials history to be an honest, complete and accurate accessment. Without your help, it will end up being much less that it could be with more information. So please help us out!

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

1970, first show of the year in Kenosha. The corps was running late and we were scheduled to go on first (don’t remember who did the drawing for us). Because of this the horns warmed up on the bus with just our mouthpieces as we traveled to our dressing facilities.

When we arrived many of the other corps were already getting dressed in the school auditorium. There was the usual amount of noise and playing around going on.

Once dressed, our horn line formed a semi circle on the auditorium stage. We played a short series of tuning cords and then playing our opening fan fare "King of Kings". We nailed it and without a word proceeded to march out single file to the starting line. You could hear a pin drop as we left the auditorium and the other corps resumed getting dressed.

We dropped the fan fare after the first show to reduce exposure and never played it again.

What did you do in the Corps? !st sop

What years were you a Corps member? 1963 - 1973

Thanks Craig.

It appears from old magazines and scores that the corps was doing pretty well overall during the season. Can you identify the strengths and weaknesses of the 70 corps and why they didn't go to Miami to compete in VFW nationals?

Also, anything of note that happened within the corps competitively or otherwise?

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

Good questions Jerry.

Throughout the season we would either win top horns, top drums, top guard, or top M & M. Consistency seemed to be the biggest issue because we rarely won in multiple captions at one show. An incident we had with the Cavaliers at McHenry (this was covered in a previous thread) also did not endear us to the judges and I think we paid for it on the score sheets the rest of the season.

From what I remember Miami was never strongly considered due to finances and Nationals was not the BIG SHOW it once was in the 50s and 60s.

What did you do in the Corps? !st sop

What years were you a Corps member? 1963 - 1973

1970 was my first year in the Cadets, but I still remember the strength of that Imperials corps, and I've always wondered what might have happened had they pushed for Nationals, gone to Miami and made finals. Belleville was 12th in that show, and I believe Norwood beat them a time or two during the season, so it's not impossible that they might have made the night show.

Making finals and not having the bus crash might have changed the entire future of the corps.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

I agree Bob,

It would be interesting to see how the Imperials would have fared against the still strong competition that attended VFW. I was in Miami and to be honest, I didn't any competitive drop off of corps that attended VFW that year or in 1971, which was the last year VFW was a major competition. The finals slate was very strong in 1970 as it as it was for the most part at Dallas in 71, the year of the dreaded combine. I watched as much of prelims as time allowed, and there were many corps in the running for those bottom 3 slots. Finances did have a major impact on many corps that year, as some corps from the Midwest and West just couldn't afford the trip all the way to Miami after a season which highlighted big shows in many different regions of the country. I still remember that show vividly and it was packed with top units from all regions. The top corps were still there for the most part, with the exception of Norwood and a handful from out west. The top competitive corps though were there. It might have been the strongest year Boston Crusaders had in many years and they were nosed out by Troopers who were near unbeatable that year.

Would have been interesting to see Norwood in Miami. They may or may not have made finals, but they sure would have put the heat on those who did. One could make a good case for them making finals in 70, which might have altered the overall confidence and/or direction the corps took in the early 70s. Also they might have avoided that bus accident which had such a traumatic effect on the corps early in the 70s decade. Woulda, shoulda, coulda,.....All conjecture I guess, but it would have been great to see them there.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

BTW, which thread is the Cavalier incident located on? I would like to review that for the history segment, as I believe it might indeed, as Craig thought, have had an impact on the scoring for the corps.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

We had a good solid corps in '70 which was my age out season and much better than '69. We had some good talent and a lot of pride that year. The show was entertaining, fun to play and fans responded well to the music but I never thought we scored as well as we should have.....which was not the case in '69 when we were just not that good. We had quite a number of age outs in '70 which probably made '71 a little tough. I remember Craig T. being about the same age as me but I think he marched another 3 or 4 years....how'd that work? Must be the baby face thing.

Anyway, I remember our last show (black plums)at Rockford I think....threw my mouth piece on the field and never played again. Maybe we started a trend as now at DCI finals everyone leaves stuff on the field. Bottom line was '70 was a good year for the corps with good memories (except the bus accident)for my last season.....I still listen to the CD once in a while!

Thanks Tom,

I have been searching through a very large stack of old drum corps magazines and other sources for information on the 1970, 71, 72 & 73 Imperial corps. I have a recap from US Open in 1969 which gave me some relativity as to where Imperials stood that year. So far everything I have read and/or heard leads me to believe that the 1970 corps had indeed improved a great deal in comparison to the previous year, and was on the verge of regaining it's finalist status.

Tom, I truly appreciate your input because it confirms the information I had already gathered, but had not hard evidence other than scores, which can be deceiving. I also wondered and am at a loss to understand what happened between 1968 and 1969 that brought on the drop in scores and competitiveness. Those seem to be key years for the corps competitively as they seemed to be have slipped a bit from a national competitive level or contender status. Please believe me, there is NO disrespect intended to those who marched in the corps at that time. In fact, I very much respected and enjoyed the Imperials from that era. There are just some questions that need to be clarified in regard to situations or events that led to the slide, and what forces prevented them from regaining prominence in the "Nationals" arena.

I actually have another question or two for you or anyone else from that period to answer. What was the size of the corps in 1970 (i.e. number of Horns, drums, guard etc.), as well as the following years? Moreover, what were some of the high points, special moments and accomplishments of the corps in 1970 and thereafter? We want to make sure that the good people who marched or worked with that corps get recognized for their dedication and effort.

There were many good things and special moments that happened in the Imperial Drum & Bugle Corps each and every year. We need to be reminded of those things or learn about them for the first time, so all alumni have the opportunity to really appreciate the experiences of their fellow members from year to year. I personally feel very strongly that the good and positive experiences must be preserved accurately and respectfully in the corps history, for all members to read and take pride in. The Imperials in every sense are like a family tree. Each branch or member in that family tree deserves to be remembered.

We unfortunately are required to chronicle certain difficulties that occurred within the corps during those years to complete the history. However, we are also honor bound to remember and represent all of the good things that made the Imperials the special organization that it was through the years. Drum and bugle corps participation for most members is remembered through the good times they experienced, or honors they received. Although history requires a thorough documentation which may include uncomfortable facts, I would like our corps history to speak much more strongly toward the positive effect, experiences and pride that the corps instilled in it's members. My personal philosophy us that the good experiences far outweigh the negative ones in their ultimate importance within the memories of the wonderful people who were associated with the Imperials through the years. We have a history to be proud of and need people of all eras to share their view of that history for it ever to be complete.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

I, believe the 1970 corps had a 42 or 44 man horn line. In my spare time, when I had nothing better to do I, came up with the horn roster,minus a few. Maybe someone else can help filling in a few blanks.

Sops
Craig Tomas
Ed stojak
Frank Puleo
Jeff Helgeson
Connell Griffin
Tom Borchard
Pete Borchard
Bob Brown
Ron Hausheer
Tom Murphy
Bill Becker
Wally Kubija
Little Becker
Norman Linquist
Mike Hilgers
Larry Korus
Don Michaels


French Horns
Rich Nabasny
Bob Wiesnewski
Larry Cheiro
Jack Pearson
Frank Gill
Larry Schlenker



Bari Gods
Tom Grana
Paul Tamasek
Warren Rabe
John Olker
Adam Slagowski
Wayne Harris
Bill Kalady
Jerry Kozaritz
2 Brothers[maybe twins]?

Eups
Gary Zinkan
Dennis Kulich
Steve Zick

Contra's
Sloopy McGee
Rick Armonde
Tiny{from Bellville}
?????


I know there are a few missing,and a few misspelled, but it's only been 39 years.

Larry, you are correct Adam was a baritone. The drummers were as follows. Snares:Wigman(same baby face as Craig),Ted Duber,Mike Harris, and a kid from Belleville named Scott. Double-tenors: Al Hauscheer, myself, and Chuck Hilgers. Tympanis:George Nichols, John Donnelly, and Vernon French. Base Drums: Larry Nichols, Rick Wyatt, and Jeff Momoi. Cymbals:Charles Guider and two others but I can't recall their names. One might have been Ron Kas.

Tom, you sure are right about the ageouts in 1970. Not only did we lose people that it was their last year legally. We also lost alot of people who had 2-3 years left and had a strong Norwood background. The bus accident was partly to blame but certainly not the whole reason. There was just to much that happened at the end of 1970.

Dennis, Your right about the end of the year,but if you think about the whole year the up's and down's with very little middle ground. WOW!

Ah, yes...age-outs who didn't...I think Stojak could cover his house in black plumes...and wasn't that the reason Adam played snare in Royal Airs and baritone with Norwood? I little tough to hide him in the drum line.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare, Drum Major, Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Cutting to the chase. Am I right in assuming that the corps had problems in 71-73 because of the amount of age outs and the bus accident?

I can understand both how both would have a big impact on the corps for a year or two, but did those 2 problems at the end of 1970 have that much of a dramatic impact on the corps that they had problems recruiting after that season?

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

I believe there were several overage members in the early 70s, and it really bugged me. But again, I was 13 at the tme. But I remember it quite clearly. It was always a joke that Stojak could cover his house in black plumes! I hope I've been mistaken all these years.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

I don't know if that was the case or not because I wasn't around. Let's just say that the overage issue even remotely be confined to Imperials or any one or two corps. It was pretty wide spread. More times than not, the corps themselves didn't know that a member was overage. However, Don Warren was in fact in the middle of many of those types of confrontations. He tried to blow the whistle on Des Plaines Vanguard one year and also a few other well known midwestern corps, who were accused, but nothing was ever substantiated or proved. I guess one could say Don was just trying to see that the rules were enforced......well, one could say it anyway.

I guess it's not really an issue anymore. We are ALL overage. LOL

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

I need to qualify a sentence in there that sounds wrong. I wrote:

Let's just say that the overage issue even remotely be confined to Imperials or any one or two corps" but meant to write...Let's just say that the overage issue couldn't even remotely be confined to Imperials or any one or two corps.

The overage thing isn't really that big a deal at this time anyway. How many shows do you really think overage members really had a major impact on? In my opinion, probably none. Any player that had high enough skills to alter the outcome of a show would have gotten caught because we all knew who the heavy hitter players were in each corps. It might have made a small difference with Muchachos, but who knows? They were on the rise to begin with and just peaked that year. Any overage players, and it was only one or two, would have just filled out a section that was already good and would have had only a minimal effect, if any, although it was still against the rules.

I'm not condoning the practice at all, so don't interpret this as giving the corps a pass who marched overage members knowingly. However, it was a fact of life in drum corps just like any other activity that had an age limit. Almost anybody would have tried to extend their drum corps career if they had a chance back then. It was a tough thing to age out and have something that meant so much to you taken away because of turning one year older. So it's not acceptable because it breaks the rules, but it is understandable to a certain extent.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

Jerry,

In the case of the Muchachos, it was actually discovered eventually that almost a third of the corps was overage - and some were 26, so it wasn't just a year or two over. That would have had a major impact on performance.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

OK, lets get this thread back on track. The object is to pass us some information so we can include it in the 70s history segment. We are getting a good response on 1970, which has helped a lot. We need to find out what occurred in 71-74.

Any special awards? How well did the corps compete? How big was is? Who were the main instructors and the people who were the movers and the shakers?

We really need this type stuff if we are going to recognize the acheivements of those corps.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

One memorable show from 1970 was Deerfield, in July I think. We were up against Santa Clara Vanguard. They were on a tear winning shows and were definetly on the rise quickly. Somehow we beat them at the Deerfield show, I think by about a point.....we were good but that was one show where we probably got some breaks. In fact, the very next night we were in a show with SCV and they beat us by a lot. We never beat them again.

I'm almost certain that was the last time the Imperials beat a top rated corps.

Tom, that July 4th show was great! yes, the Imperials beat the Santa Clara Vanguard by about a point.

Not sure why, but here is an opinion: (I watched the show from the press box)

1. SCV was off a bit .. didn't really "push" and seemed to be tired. Maybe they thought they had this one "in the bag"?

2. Imperials came off the line and really worked. Had a good show.

3. This was in the days when judges would actually reward corps which performed. They didn't always judge by "reputation". :)

This win CERTAINLY belongs in the history for 1970!!


Wonder if I have a copy of the score sheet?

I would LOVE to see a recap of that show! I believe Norwood was the only midwest corps to beat SCV that year, and for several years to come. And that loss bothered Gayle Royer for years (as we've discussed in previous threads).

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

It would have been a much bigger deal in today's times. By the time anyone heard about it in 1970, the second show had taken place and the first was written off as a fluke. But imagine if the internet world had spread it within minutes of it happening, and the buzz it would have created about Norwood!

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

I agree Bob. But I was basically talking about is the here and now. They won, so it should be accepted without thinking of it as a fluke or anything like that, even if it may have been. A win is a win. We had corps beat us who under normal circumstances NEVER would have, but it didn't stop them from enjoying it, and it didn't stop us from stomping their butts the next time we saw them.

But in the here and now, it counts as a big win. So why not enjoy it?

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

What years were you a Corps member? http://