Cathy Fiduccia Manhoff entered an interesting post yesterday about INSPECTIONS! See below:

Oh my gosh! I just remembered (from looking at the pictures) wearing hair nets and the 'inspections' at VFW prelims.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Cathy's post brings back "fond" memories .. of standing in the heat (some kids fainting), spending hours in preparation .. cleaning and polishing shoes, instruments and uniforms.

It was important because the tenths deducted could make a difference in the corps placement.

The worst inspection I can recall was in Madison at the Scouts big show in early July each year. They used a Marine sergeant, not sure where he was from, as the inspection judge. He was BRUTAL. ALL the corps had POINTS deducted.

I like Bob Shreffler's story about the Black Knights needing extra members for a show (due to school tests) and having them stand inspection but then "faint" when the show started. Very creative!

What other "inspection" stories do you remember?

I remember at VFW one year we had one of our buddies in Kilts actually pass out in inspection. We told him not to freak out and lock his knees, but he musta been overcome by the heat. If I remember correctly it was very hot and sticky that day.

Inspections were one area of the sheets that should have been eliminated years before they actually were. We all made sure we were spit shined and our uniforms ironed before every contest. I can remember shows being won and lost at inspection, which in my eyes was ridiculous.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

well. maybe WE thought that inspection was rediculous .. it CERTAINLY was a major pain.

But, the veterans didn't think that way. They wanted a MILITARY focused presentation. Clean and "spit polished". Besides, there were a lot of drum corps that were pretty shabby with their equipment and uniforms and needed some incentive to "shape up".

Inspection was part of the ritual. And, it was worth it.

I agree with Jerry, the inspections were a waste and I never thought they made any sense. If a show was decided by a smudge on a shoe that was just dumb. There were plenty of opportunities to look and act in a military manner besides standing in a line like a statue.

I don't think that shows were decided by a smudge on a shoe. They were decided by the corps performances.

And, some might say, part of the "performance" was inspection.

I'm with the "anti-inspection" crowd. Sometimes it wasn't the kid's fault that their instruments or uniforms were a mess. I can remember staying up all night, taking my drum completely apart to clean the inside (because the top head was clear with a silver dot) - such a waste of time.

And sometimes it DID affect the outcome of the show. There is a case mentioned in Jodeen Popp's book where a corps lost state because an inspection judge mistook a soldering mark on a horn for a water spot. Losing a show by a tenth or two was tough enough without it being caused by something that wasn't part of the performnce.

DCI got THAT one right!

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

well, I disliked inspections too.

My point was: it was part of the veterans organization's way of thinking. Part of the deal.

So.... DCI came along and decided to do everything their way, instead of working with the veterans groups. Without the support and participation of the veterans. NO inspections. NO cadence or flag penalty rules. NO politics.

I remember Gary Friebus passing out in inspection for VFW Nationals in Philadelphia in 1969 and falling face first on a concrete parking lot. There was blood. Also if you remember the big Eastern corps like Blessed Sac and Garfield getting like 7-8 tenths in penalties and complaining enough to the judges so that they disallowed the Inspection. We actually were always pretty good in Inspections.

IMHO, even if DCI hadn't come along, there would have been some major changes in the drum corps activity. The first one might have been the asinine rule that corps had to play at a metronomic marking of 128. Where the heck did that originate from???? It's certainly not a military thing because any musician knows that 'real' military marches were played quite a bit slower than that, unless played as a concert piece to show off with. I attended a clinic with William Revelli and John Paynter where they discussed marches. They both made a point to qualify the relative speed of a march as about 100-110 when actually in a parade. Both would also have admitted that they played them much faster in concert though. So where did the 128 mm rule come from? Was it just an arbitrary thing that was decided on? I think it might have been initially put in the rules to prevent corps from playing easy tunes slow, like Come To Jesus in whole notes. But after a while, that rule got in the way of many of the top corps playing some really good music. Some things just couldn't be phrased correctly at the arbitrary 128. I remember losing a show because we lost two tenths for playing too fast on a tune.

The 2nd thing to go would have been inspections. They do have their roots in the military establishment, but created havoc because there was no uniform way of adjudicating the caption. With the different types of uniforms and instruments, it was literally impossible get an accurate scoring method. It was more of a formality toward the end and was an important part of the activity more in the VFW and Legion's eyes than it was to the corps. It also became hazardous to the members because of the excessive period that they had to stand motionless. I would bet there are several examples like was mentioned above where people were hurt badly when they would pass out in inspection. For that reason alone, it should have been replaced with some other method to make sure corps were looking their best.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

I guess the question should be; Would a group like DCI have been seen necessary to the majority of drum corps if the VFW and American Legion been a bit more flexible and adjust the rules to a bit more with the times?

I think that was the major beef with both organizations. The lack of flexibility with regards to the rules utilized in their competitions. Ultimately they were forced to make the changes, but by then DCI had a grip on the activity and it was too late for the VFW and Legion to remain the sponsors of the major championship contests.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

Well, did anyone ever try to reason with, ask, suggest, negotiate changes, with the veterans organizations ? OR did they just go in and DEMAND changes?

I am NOT familiar with what was going on .... certainly there was a lot of politics then ! But, it seems pretty arrogant to just demand stuff and walk away when you don't get everything you want.

YES ... cadence rules and inspections were not something we liked. But, they were part of the structure (especially VFW). If you wanted to be in their game, you had to play by their rules. Sorry, that is life. Stop complaining.

OR, you can engage them in a dialogue and perhaps influence change cooperatively. Maybe.

Dave,

I and a lot of the Kilties were told by Ed Porcaro and/or Willie Poulsen that they and other directors were always trying to get rules changes through the VFW and American Legion Uniform Groups Congress, with no success. That's why the combine was formed. They tried for a lot of years and got tired of being told no. They had to jump through hoops to get the organizations to legalize flugel horns, Contras and multi tenor drums, etc. from what I was told. It seems that they just got tired of jumping through so many hoops, so they formed the Combine which later became (cough) DCI. It wasn't a matter of them just going in and making demands. It was corps directors, managers and staff trying for several years to get VFW and AL to budge on the rules and at least consider allowing pilot projects and tests for rule changes.

That subject came up a lot in 70 and 71 at Kiltie Hall because we all wanted to know why there was a Combine and we weren't a member of it. So Ed (Kiltie Corps Director and Editor of Drum Corps America) would tell us and Willie (Scott Poulsen's father and former director) would complain about the fact that Kilties weren't an original combine member, in spite of winning VFW Nationals 2 out of the 3 years, U.S. Open twice and Shriners Twice in the three years before the combine was formed.

In over 40 years as an active participant or viewer. I have never heard one person who was a manager or director at the time say that they didn't try to reason with the VFW over the years to get some reasonable changes in the rules. I'm convinced it was just a case of the corps' having tried for a long time and feeling they had no alternative but to form their own association. Too bad it ended up like DCI. Either way, the VFW and AL overplayed their hand and would have been well served and stayed in control with a bit more flexibility on their part.

No sense in getting upset about it now. It's been 36 years since VFW had a meaningful championship contest. It's not the corps or VFW and American Legion's fault that Pesceone and DCI screw the thing up so bad. It's just a matter of DEvolving.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Corps Manager

Seems to me that another issue was the inconsistency between VFW and AL rules. Although we only went to VFW in 1966 in New Jersey, I recollect that the American Legion contest was the following weekend in Washington DC. Seem to recollect that only five corps were in the finals instead of the twelve that made VFW.

Also recollect that my first year in the Cadets (1959), the Imperials competed in the Legion contest in Minneapolis. There were no finals. I don't know the details but assume each corps did their full show and the scores were announced but it could be that they might have done an abbreviated show. Anyway, as I understand the history Norwood and five of the other top seven corps (St Vincent's wasn't invited) competed in Stillwater Minnesota that evening. Cavaliers and Sac tied for first with Norwood placing third. So Stillwater was sort of a "finals" contest for the day's Legion show.

Also, during my time in the corps it seemed that the Legion convention was always in late August or early September after school was in session. Difficult for many corps to participate in those September shows.

As Jerry says because of the VFW and Legion inflexibility we ended up with DCI which really wasn't any better (they still had Angelica et al).

Also, it seems to me that Drum Corps World made an attempt for a few years starting in 1963 to have another National Championship with the "World Open" which I recollect was conducted like a National Championship. The CYO Nationals was also created about that time. Norwood never competed in either of those during my time in the Imperials but seems to me these might have been initial attempts at alternatives to VFW and American Legion.

What years were you a Corps member? Cadets 1959 through 1961 Imperials 1962 through 1966

Wow guys! ...and all I said was hairnets and inspections :) I must say, my boots never looked whiter or shinier and my blouse was ironed to perfection. I also remember losing a tenth or two because someones shirt wasn't ironed to perfection and it did cost us a placing. So I have to agree it was nerve-racking and pointless. But remember I am old now and the memory isn't as sharp as it used to be. So it may have been just a bad dream

Ok back to your debate, my commercial interuption is over .....

What did you do in the Corps? Color Guard Rifle

What years were you a Corps member? 1973 to 1979

When I was a judge, I sometimes had to be the "inspection judge". Yikes.

But, I do recall that NOBODY was allowed to touch the American Flag. If the judge were to try that, the guard was to prevent that from happening. Of course, that was part of the test!

There was a lot of ritual in the inspection process too. When the judge found an "error", he told the DM. The DM was allowed to explain. Sometimes, the DM could convince the judge that what he saw was NOT an error!

I think in addition to the DM, a corps could have another representative walk along, so we would pick the biggest BSer in the corps. There are some interesting stories of creative excuses for problems. For example, one time a member's pant leg was a little higher than the other leg, and the corps member told the judge it was because the kid had a wooden leg. The judge was too embarassed to check!

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

One thing everyone has to remember is that the Vietnam War was still going on and both the VFW and American Legion didn't take kindly to people wanting to change things. If you wanted change, you were one of those freaky HIPPIES! It was just wanting to make a change, and they felt they were under attack. Drum Corps were the anti war protesters.

Steve,

That's an excellent point, and I never put that together before. They were always resistent to changes, but I'm sure that situation only made it worse. They probably saw anyone still marching as a draft dodger!

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79