1968 VFW - DETROIT, MI

Scores (Finals):

1. Kilties 89.85
2. Cavaliers 88.90
3. Troopers 88.70
4. Des Plaines Vanguard 88.35
5. Royal Airs 88.00
6. St. Joseph’s , Batavia NY 83.8
7. Blue Rock, DE 80.4
8. Blue Stars, WI 78.7
9. Racine Scouts 77.2
10.Argonne Rebels, KS 76.25
11.27th Lancers, MA 75.4
12. Imperials 73.75

Imperials were also 12th in prelims. 44 corps competed.
Des Plaines Vanguard won the prelims! Black Knights were 13th, Madison Scouts were 20th.

This was the LAST major national contest (where all the major corps attended) in which the Imperials placed in the finals. The corps did not make the finals in 1969 and did not attend in 1970 or 71. When DCI began, all the contending corps went there instead of to VFW or AL.

What did you do in the Corps? drummer

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

An interesting year. If you look at the top of the scores (Kilties, Cavaliers, Troopers, Royal Airs), they were all corps on the verge of falling through the ranks, or outright folding, while the bottom group (Blue Rock, Blue Stars, Argonne, 27th) would be among the next group to become contenders.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Bob,

I found it curious with your assertion about the top five falling or on the verge of folding. I know that at least two of those corps The Troopers and Kilties were very solid in the management aspect, membership and were nowhere near close to even consider folding. Both has strong basses of operations and booster clubs. They were not not even considering the prospect of not operating or folding. I know RA was in the verge, but not sure about Cavies or Vanguard. The Cavies seemed to be on a strong footing.

Maybe you can clear up for me what you we inferring with that. I might have read your intentions wrong. Sorry, I just found that statement curious and wondered where that all came from.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Arranger and Corps manager in 81

I was only referring to competitive standing, not management. Cavaliers were nearing the end of their 60s run, Kilties would only win one more Nationals the next year, Troopers would be at the bottom of finals within a few years, Des Plaines and Royal Airs would be gone as DCI got going. On the other hand, Argonne would build an incredible horn line and win a Nationals, 27th would become the strongest corps in the East and almost win DCI in 1980, Blue Rock would have made the first DCI finals if they had gone, Blue Stars would almost win that show and make DCI every year through 1979.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Bob,

Thanks for qualifying that, although there still were major championships aside from the VFW title or DCI title after 68 and 69 (i.e. World Open, US Open, CYO, Shriners, Bluegrass Nationals etc.), not THE major championship, but still major national level shows non-the-less that some of your listed corps won after 1968 or 69. These shows admittedly weren't as well stocked with contenders (Combine boycotts of certain shows taken into consideration) and not on the same level as DCI after 1972. However as you stated correctly, Blue Rock would have made finals in 72 had they gone, which may have been the case with other top corps had they chosen to participate in DCI or major shows other than those directly held by DCI. Maybe Blue Rock and others would have lasted longer had they gone to DCI in 72 or had the other top shows still existed. I hope you understand where I am going with that.

After 1972, many major shows just lacked fire power corps because of back room manipulation and potential political damage to the corps that chose to attend those shows, even though those corps had long standing traditions of participation in the shows. It had a direct effect on a few of those units competitively which you listed, namely Cavaliers and Kilties. They both paid the price (politically & competitively) for participating in VFW Nationals, World Open and other "tabu" shows after DCI established itself as the ruling body of the activity. Meaning: Those two corps just may have been better than their scores at DCI sponsored shows indicated, had they strictly followed the dictates of the powers that be and not participated in those shows in question.

Some of your listed corps simply chose a different path than that charted for them by DCI and suffered greatly for their independent thinking, even though they did in fact continue to exist and win what were once great shows considered to be near near the same level of esteem as VFW once enjoyed. In this regard, the lack of some DCI corps just altered the perceived significance of the show they had won or place highly in, if that makes sense. Ironically, the same perception can be made however for many VFW championship contests through the years that were missing key competitive corps because they lacked the finances to travel to a distant site for the competition. 68 Nationals in Detroit could be used for an example, even though it wasn't a great distance for any of the major corps. The East in all reality was not in a position that year for any of it's top corps to beat the top five from the midwest, so they seemed to just take a pass on VFW that year. However, had all of the top eastern corps showed up in Detroit, again considering that they probably would not have had any significant effect on the top 5 placement, the rest of the finals show would have taken on a very different complexion and makeup of the units in the show, thus making it more prestigious and having a dramatic affect on the bottom corps that would have been bumped out. Bottom line: changing the fortunes of those that DID make finals, but may not have if the East was there in force.

Sadly, DCI changed everything by driving everyone (show sponsors, competing associations, major competitive organizations) out of business and eliminating any perceived competition by openly barring their units from participation in all but a few of these "lesser" shows. Some corps followed the dictates of DCI to not participate, while others chose to decide for themselves which shows that they would participate in and which they would not. Those corps that chose to be a bit more independent payed the price in the long run both politically and competitively from DCI, which may have had a dramatic impact on that corps' probable survival or competitiveness in the years that followed 1970, but that is the topic of other discussions that may spin off of this one.

So Bob, I agree in essence with your statement which is pretty close to being spot on. However we would be remiss if we fail to take into consideration the interference and manipulation by DCI as contributing factors in what happened to these corps, as well as those shows that supported those particular and other top corps through the years. I hope you understand by reading between the lines, what I have put forth here. Many of those top corps that started fading at the end of the 60s or early 1970s might have survived longer and/or have been much more competitive had there still been the large number of national level shows that were present in the past. Winning some of these lesser shows might have been a way back or a way to sustain them both financially and competitively. In the past they would have used wins at those types of shows as a spring board in many facets of their operations, including financial and recruitment. Perception is reality. Winning a major show is the perception of greatness, with a reality of sustaining memberships and forward thinking attitudes and perspectives within those corps. Eliminating the shows that were perceived to be of great prestige just may have hastened the end of many drum corps that relied on those shows.

A very round about way of saying that many of those corps might still be alive had it not been for the hostile elimination of independent shows that the corps could hang their competitive hats on. To tie it all together, Imperials may have been one of those corps heavily affected by the elimination of shows that they were tied to historically. Again, hope all of that makes sense and adds to your otherwise spot on perspective. Sorry this went too long.

What did you do in the Corps? Brass Instructor, Arranger and Corps manager in 81

Some Imperials music from 1968

Dixie * Yankee Doodle Dandy * My Country 'Tis of Thee * Going Out Of My Head * All Or Nothing At All

What did you do in the Corps? percussion

What years were you a Corps member? 1958-63

This is another reason I don't like the Cavaliers they were 1 of the first 5 that started this DCI b.s. that in my opinion killed Drum Corps. Drum corps were designed to get kids off the streets and give them guidance and a purpose in life. I think there would be a lot less gangs if true drum corps was still around. DCI corps have budgets in the millions, the average kid couldn't afford it and if they don't already have talent, they wouldn't be excepted. Real drum corps took kids off the streets and honed their God given talents until they were competitive or able to move up to a competitive corps.