John Anderson - Are the Blue Devil's and Santa Clara B Corps really that good? Looking at the scores from the California State Open, they would kill Madison and a few other open class corps.

What did you do in the Corps? Drum

What years were you a Corps member? 60-69

John,

Considering Madison's decline in recent years, it wouldn't surprise me, unfortunately. But I suspect that the judging tolerance may be different for those corps, especially when they're the only ones in a show.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arrnager

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Yes, Bob is correct. The standards for "Open Class"corps are set different from those for "World Class". (Well, at least they USED to be). So, the scores aren't comparable.

I saw both of them in the same show as six of the A class corps. The both were as polished as the Troopers, Mandarins and Denver and had comparable shows. The Blue Devils B has more than sixty horns.

I'd say that if the Troopers and Denver are top twelve corps the Blue Devils B corps is close. What's missing in their shows are the top soloists and some difficult music. But the same is true for the Troopers and Denver.

At Palo Alto there was a definate gap in talent between the top three (Bluecoats, Santa Clara and Blue Devils) and all the other corps at Palo Alto.

I haven't seen Madison but based on the where they have been finishing, I'd say they might have a difficult time topping the two California High School age corps.

I will say that the Troopers, Mandarins and Denver were much improved from what I saw in 2007 at Palo Alto. I was a little surprised that the Mandarins didn't place higher in San Antonio.

I did suspect the different standards. I never did subscribe to that philosophy. I think it is confusing to the younger members. If you enter a few "mixed class" shows, the score drops and they wonder what happened. We used to talk about the "easy" judges and the "butchers". As I got older, I respected the butcher more. Of course now with no ticks... it's just a matter of (qualified) opinion. Consistency is a wonderful thing - in any sport. Why does the strike zone move from day to day? Why is it a foul one day but not the next? Consistent standards and evaluation are the only way to measure progess.

What did you do in the Corps? Drum

What years were you a Corps member? 60-69

John, I fully agree with you ... but WE are judges of the "old school".

The new corps want to avoid being "butchered" when their young corps come into contests. They want their kids to see 'high" scores and "feel good".

So, DCI created the "new" standards for Open Class corps. Go figure.

I guess it's the same reason they keep changing the names of the divisions. A, B, and C corps must have been demeaning to the Bs and Cs, so along came Division 1 and 2, then A-60 (possibly the strangest one of the bunch), and now World Class (which used to be Open Class)...

But bands are guilty of it too. At most local contests (at least in Georgia and Florida), the scores increase as the classes go along from smaller to larger, so a really great smaller band has virtually no chance of winning Grand Champion, because the judges hold back on their scores until the last class.

In 1974 at DCI finals (before prelims/finals became quarters/semis/championships - whatever), a couple of corps received perfect 30s in GE, and they weren't last on - and it caused quite a stink. The question was what the judges would have done if the last corps was actually better (luckily, on that night, they weren't).

And all of this is why the tick system was better!

OK, wheel me back to the sun parlor now...

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arrnager

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79