Well, it is time to start the betting. While many of us really don't give a care about DCI corps, it is still interesting to watch the DYNAMICS involved. The judging trends are interesting to watch .... and laugh at too! Much of this is very predictable.

Anyway, as of the Independence Day weekend .. here are the DCI leaders: (latest scores shown)

Cadets 84.9
Blue Devils 84.5
Carolina Crown 83.5
Blue Coats 83.2
Cavaliers 83.0
Phantom Reg. 81.9
Santa Clara 80.7
Boston 80.4
Blue Knights 79.9
Troopers 72.2

Gosh, reaching a score of almost 85 on the Independence Day weekend? Scoring is sure DIFFERENT using the subjective system!

While anything is possible with DCI, I'd have to agree with John Anderson ... look to the Blue Devils! Carolina could be a "dark horse"!

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Scores at this date aren't an exact indicator but close. I depends on how corps modify their shows. The Blue Devils seem to have this down based on last year and the fact that they don't compete in every show on what seems a logical circuit. That gives them time to work on modifications.

I checked DCI earlier and noted Carolina had moved over a score of 85.

Big showdown is this weekend in Denver when the Cadets and Blue Devils are in the same show. At this point it seems predictable as Dave notes. Blue Devils, Carolina and maybe the Cadets just based on early scores. Of course I'd rather see anyone but George Hopkin's Cadets win. Seems like these three are the top.

As a fan of the Blue Devils it would be nice to see them run the table again. But then is that really good for the activity. In the late 1950s and early 1960s it seems we had that situation with the Cavaliers in midwest shows but eventually the Royal Airs, Kilts, and Vanguard started beating them. We even came within half a point a few times. I don't see that happening in DCI and in time it may just die (if they don't kill themselves off with the G7 stuff).

I'd love to see Carolina win, just to have somebody besides Devs, Cadets, or Cavaliers. It's scary to look back over the last 20 years and see how seldom anyone but those three has won. Madison once, Star once, Phantom once (and a tie), and a Santa Clara tie, and that's about it.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Interesting comments.

But, to me, it is very sad to see that there are really only about 15 "top level" competitive corps .. and the winners seem to be one of the "standard three or four" every year.

And, how many corps are still alive from the hundreds of 30 years ago?

Bah!

There were probably more corps in Illinois in the 50's, 60's, and 70's than there are in the country right now.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

The Blue Devils cracked 85 but Carolina is not quite there yet. I thought they'd gone over 85 earlier but couldn't find a score that high. Maybe a typo. Anyway it seems some things are going on in the second tier (below Carolina, Blue Devils and Garfield). Looks like the Cavaliers lost to the Bluecoats last night and Denver beat Santa Clara. Interesting to see if this continues. Seems like the real competition might be from these corps--Bluecoats, Cavaliers, Santa Clara, Phantom Regiment, Denver and Boston. Based on the scores Madison and the rest look like lost causes. So in reality looks like this year we have the big three (or maybe two if the Cadets are left behind) plus another six. So there are nine corps that seem competitive.

Isn't good for the activity.

well, some big shows this weekend and some of the leading corps met head-to-head. Some surprises .... but the Blue Devils seem to be well in the lead!

Latest scores:
7/11

Blue Devils 88.00
Carolina Crown 86.35
Blue Coats 86.25
Cavaliers 85.8
Cadets 85.7
Phantom Reg. 83.8
Santa Clara 83.5
Blue Knights 82.4
Boston 81.25
Blue Stars 79.0
Madison 78.6
Glassmen 77.65
----------------------------
Colts 74.9
Troopers 74.25
Spirit 73.25

Well, another big week in DCI .. with a MAJOR show tonight in Minneapolis! 21 corps, including ALL of the leaders!

I find it interesting to see the changes in corps shows each year, but really just watch the scores for the judging & scoring impact.

There are now about 5 corps ready to "bust" the 90 score level!

Based on the DCI website it seems the weathered scored 100. Sounds like the show was cancelled just prior to some of the major corps were to perform. I think the think started in the morning and was stopped about 12 hours later.

I looked at DCI scores tonight and their rankings. Blue Devils have hit 92.00. But it is the Green machine that is scoring the highest of the rest--still about 2 points behind the Blue Devils. Cavaliers might also have higher scores because they're in the shows with the Blue Devils. Need to see what happens when Carolina comes up against them though next week.

Other than Devs, things seem pretty liquid right now - for a change!

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

I'm hoping that when the dust settles we see the Blue Coats and Carolina in the second and third spots and the Cadets and Cavaliers in fourth and fifth. Would prefer (from personal bias) to see those two organizations lower but Phantom Regiment and Santa Clara aren't going to jump over them. From what I hear Phantom Regiment has some money problems but expect that is the case with a number of corps.

I don't know what the Cavaliers are doing, but it's working. They have jumped over everyone except Blue Devils, and I don't know when those two meet again.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

it must be their new rehearsal methods, as reported by Bill Schaefer on July 5th.

Friday is their next meeting. Think it's called "the Elite Eight" Blue Devils, Boston, Blue Coats, Cadets, Santa Clara, Carolina, Phantom Regiment and the Cavaliers.

Maybe it should be called the G7 plus one. Don't recollect Boston is not part of the G7.

Current rankings, based on average scores for the week:

1 Blue Devils 91.975
2 The Cavaliers 90.275
3 Carolina Crown 89.550
4 Bluecoats 89.517
5 The Cadets 89.330
6 Santa Clara 86.950
7 Phantom Reg. 86.888
8 Boston 85.288
9 Blue Stars 85.250
10 Blue Knights 83.713
11 Madison Scouts 82.250
12 Glassmen 81.425

I agree would love to see the Bluecoats win it but if it ends up the way it looks like it is going to I take the Blue Devils over the Cavaliers any day.

What did you do in the Corps? soprano

What years were you a Corps member? 82-84

Yes. It is very much like with the Bears fans: "My second favorite team is anyone who beats the Packers!"

I'll agree with Dave about the Packers. I like the Oakland A's but after 26 years of following them I can not wear an A's baseball cap because they have the same colors as the Packers.

Tonight's results

1 Blue Devils 95.300
2 Bluecoats 93.550
3 The Cavaliers 93.100
4 Carolina Crown 92.350
5 The Cadets 90.900
6 Santa Clara Vanguard 88.750
7 Phantom Regiment 88.500
8 Boston Crusaders 84.95

The Bluecoats seem to be the best of the rest. I'd like to see them open the gap on the Cavaliers. Phantom Regiment is falling and it looks like the Cadets and Carolina are out of it.

We'll see how things shape up after tomorrow's big show in Atlanta.

Devs appear to have a pretty comfortable lead at this point, but there could still be movement below them. Today's results will tell more, as everyone is there.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Golly! 95 and it is still July. I still predict a score of 110 at Finals!

Atlanta produced pretty much the same results with Blue Devils almost 2 pts over Blue Coats and Phantom Regiment jumping over Santa Clara.

A couple of weeks ago I came to same conclusion as Dave. Winner's scores would somehow be over 100.

OK, two weeks to go .. you can see some corps making their moves now. (Blue Coats, Phantom, Blue Stars, Madison)

Here are my predictions .... we'll see how it goes!

# Corps Score

1 Blue Devils 100 or 110
2 Blue Coats 98
3 Cavaliers 97
4 Carolina 95
5 Cadets 94
6 Phantom 93
7 Santa Clara 92
8 Blue Stars 91
9 Boston 88
10 Blue Knights 86
11 Madison 85.5
12 Glassmen 85.0

And it looks like Troopers "resurgence" was just one year (like 79 and another year in the 80s). But Madison seems to be back in. And Blue Stars over Boston.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

I saw Blue Devils, Bluecoats, Crown & Phantom at a show in June and liked the Bluecoats the most. Obviously I'm sure their shows have changed/improved since then, but I'm going to DCI East this weekend and will make my predictions after.

Mary .. great idea! Please give us a good report!

Blue Devils still seem to be keeping the 2 point gap even though the scores are increasing--keep improving their show at the same rate as everyone else. Seems like the Bluecoats are now the "best of the rest" but the Cavaliers haven't competed for a few days so we'll see what happens over the next few days. Looks like Dave's scores may be correct.

Historically I seem to remember corps (pre DCI as well) that peaked early and were caught at the midway point or at nationals. Doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

John, Cavaliers are out practicing before their next show in NY .. then coming 'home" to Rosemont for their required exhibition at the Rosemont annual village picnuc. Plus the Naperville exhibition. Then on to DCI

I'd say, look out for BlueCoats and Cavaliers at DCI. But Blue Devils are a lock!

Belleville always seemed to peak early, and in the 70's Phantom was always the National Champs of July but couldn't quite sustain it to August. In 1980 the 27th Lancers peaked one week early, beating everyone at DCI East but placing second at Nationals the following week in Birmingham.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

The other thing with the Blue Devils is that if they run the table they will be undefeated two years in a row. Has that ever happened before? I don't recollect it occuring during pre-DCI. The Cavaliers, as I recollect, were undefeated in 1961. I know they lost the VFW Nationals to Sac in 1960, so their streak started after August 1960 (there used to be contests after nationals back then) and ended in Spring Valley in June or early July 1962. Norwood also beat the Cavaliers in a standstill in March or April 1961 so their streak is just based on field shows.

Of course the old timers (Cavaliers in particular) could argue that being undefeated in the 60s was a bigger accomplishment because of the inconsistency in judging (Central States, Badgerland, All-American, etc.).

I wouldn't say it was inconsistent judging. It was just more competitive not knowing that just a few corps at each show had a chance to win or even improve from other shows. I think that the change in judges made you try harder to impress all of them. Now a days it is harder to improve or get better when it it mostly impressions of the judges that are set from the start of the season.

What did you do in the Corps? Baritone and Drum Major

What years were you a Corps member? 1968-1972

well, IMHO, both John and Steve are right.

Judging in the early 1960s WAS inconsistent .. because each regional group had their own standards for performance evaluation and for judge training. This gradually changed when CSJA developed stronger standards for both and was able to influence other groups, such as VFW and AL, eventually even DCI.

But, it is also true that DCI has developed a system which "encourages" a mindset of "who are the leaders" in judging of performance and program effect. Just watch the scores and you'll see it.

Just goes to show: NOBODY is perfect.

John Anderson made a comment about "undefeated corps" earlier in this post thread.

I haven't seen any records about undefeated seasons, but there are some interesting records about "back to back" championships. See the new thread.

Well, the situation is heating up .. but I am sticking by my predictions.

Blue Devils are in charge. Cavaliers are improving, but so are the Blue Coats. Phantom seems to be able to stay ahead of Santa Clara, but SC is also improving. Madison seems to be OK as a finalist. Blue Stars are doing well too.

But, as they say, you never know .. on a given night any corps could get really hot and win. It has happened before.

My predictions and why...

1 Bluecoats
2 Blue Devils

3 Cadets
4 Cavaliers
5 Carolina Crown

6 Phantom Regiment
7 Santa Clara Vanguard

8 Blue Stars
9 Madison Scouts
10 Boston Crusaders

11 Blue Knights
12 Glassmen

Alright, after seeing mostly everyone this past weekend in Allentown I grouped them according to corps that on any given Saturday night could take the top of their grouping. I admit I didn't see Blue Knights nor Glassmen, so I just threw them in where they've been scoring. They ended up being my "Funnel Cake" corps.

I was most wowed by Madison Scouts this year. What a great in your face show. They're playing the best of Madison and their hornline just wails. While obviously they don't have the cleanest show, they wow the crowd the most getting a standing O at the end. It’s good to see them doing much better this year. I would love to see them fight a little higher on the ladder and be the surprise of the night by placing closer to Phantom/Vanguard.

In the SCV v. Phantom, either corps could beat the other. These are two of my always favorite corps every year, they might not be on top, but I always enjoy these two corps. I think this year Phantom has the better executed show, it flows nicely and they added some nice GE things to the show that can push them higher. Unless Vanguard is throwing in the bottle dance this week, I think Phantom can take them. P.S. – SCV=Best cymbal line always!!!!

The 3 "C" corps, Cadets, Cavies and Crown. All depending on their last push rehearsals this week, any of those 3 can take any of 3-5 positions. I think Crown may have peaked and is going to take the lowest slot. I really liked them last year, and while I appreciated their show this year, it kinda leaves me flat. I’m never a big fan of the Cavaliers, but they have a few wow moments, marching always is great, and their hornline still never plays enough notes. I do think Cadets will push just a bit harder and top that grouping though. Cadets show, I don’t like at all. It’s annoying. I would rather hear their hornline play, I think they might be good, but they don’t play enough to notice. They use their pit amplification way too much and loudly. A plus for Cadets in my book is they do have a good guard. Other than that, yuck!

Now for places 1 & 2 these are my hopes. I would love to see Bluecoats take it. Not sure if they can, but if anyone can take down the Devils, it is the Coats. Their hornline has amazing rich tones and shows it off in their ballad. Blue Devils are executing the heck out of their show though, I’d like to see this show again and it may grow on me when I watch on video. (It happens some years, felt that way about Star of Indiana & Cadets before too)

So sorry about the lack of drumline input… I’ve only marched horn and guard in my career so I just don’t like to speak of things I know nothing about. Sure I can tell if a line sounds like shoes in a dryer they suck, but when it gets to these top lines, I can’t tell you anything.

What years were you a Corps member? 76-83

Mary, thanks for the great insight. While your predictions may be a bit more "wishful thinking", there is also logic to your choices.

I agree about Madison. They have chosen great music for their show this year. The crowd must LOVE it with their great brass line!

Have to agree about the Cadets too. While I LOVE that corps and it's history, they have been doing really strange things in their programs . That amplification, and voice work, etc. DUMB. PLAY the instruments and play music that the crowd wants to hear!

Cavaliers are the same IMHO.

Should be interesting!

Mary,

Thank for the great review! I love that you are objective enough to say you hate the Cadets show, but still have them over the other "C" corps. I would also like to see Bluecoats win, mostly to have someone different than the Big 3 for once, and also for the drama of hearing "in second place, the Blue..." and how long the announcer could drag THAT out!

And I love your "Funnel Cake Corps" comment! In fact, I'm starting a new thread on that!

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

SO .....

after the quarterfinals and semi finals and hemi finals, etc .. is the TENSION building?


. Will someone beat the Blue Devils? Could be the (ugh) Cavaliers!
. Where will Blue Coats end up?
. Can Phantom stay ahead of SC?
. Can Madison advance?

Dave,

Your questions are answered.

1 Blue Devils

2 The Cavaliers

3 Bluecoats

4 Carolina Crown

5 The Cadets

6 Phantom Regiment

7 Santa Clara Vanguard

8 Blue Stars

9 Boston Crusaders

10 Madison Scouts

11 Blue Knights

12 Glassmen

Blue Devils had a score of 98.9 and somehow the Cavaliers scored 97.75. Would have expected a larger spread but suppose DCI didn't want to see the margin a 2 points or higher.

Interesting to see if the Blue Devils can go undefeated for a third season in 2011.

Interesting that there weren't really any "close" scores - it looks like all the gaps opened up at finals. Two straight years undefeated! I looked through Jodeen Popp's book and never see that mentioned before, at least on a national scale. I'm sure there were corps who may have been unbeaten for a couple of years in their local associations, and didn't compete against any top national groups.

And you have to give the Cavaliers credit - they were looking at 6th or 7th early in the season and were consistently under Blue Coats for the weeks leading up to nationals.

I also noticed that Phantom - in sixth place - won drums? There's karma for you...(see my other postings about their drum lines).

Another season gone...time for DCA!

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

well, my predictions held up fairly well .... surprised by the Cavaliers late surge and by Madison. Phantom with the winning drum line too .. go figure that!

Congrats to the Blue Devils on their win ... and to the Cavaliers for their hard work! Blue Coats did a fine job too.

The thing that is hanging out there for DCI is the G7 issue.

The other thing no one has mentioned is that the Blue Devils B corps won open class at DCI for the second year in a row. I suspect they might have been undefeated this year as well. Don't compete as much as the world class corps but when I saw them last year they had as many members as the World Class corps and seemed better than corps like the Troopers, Manderans and even the Blue Knights from Denver. Their scores were also higher.

1. Re: G7 - see updated post on that story
2. Re: Blue Devils B corps - see new thread on that. Worth talking about more.
3. Re: scores in Open Class - Scores in Open Class can't be compared to those in World Class because the scoring systems are different.

Despite the fact the scoring is different it is pretty impressive what the organization has done.

My understanding is that the Blue Devils B corps has mostly high school aged kids from northern California (Bay Area and Sacramento). Santa Clara also has an impressive open class corps. Don't know why they didn't go on to Indianapolis but assumed it had to do with money.