John Anderson recently posted a comment about "undefeated seasons". (Yes, we have all heard about the Cavaliers and their 1961 undefeated season. )

But, John asked if any corps has gone more than one year of being totally undefeated. It looks like the Blue Devils will do that this year.

Well, I couldn't find any records of multiple UNDEFEATED seasons, although I wouldn't be surprised to see that has happened.

But, here are some corps who had years of BACK TO BACK National championships:

PRE DCI:

Osmond Cadets: 1948, 49
Holy Name / Garfield Cadets: 1948, 49, 50 & 1960, 61, 62
St. Vincent Cadets: 1946, 47 & 1950, 51, 52, 53 & 1955, 56
Blessed Sacrament: 1954, 55, 56 & 1958, 59, 60
Cavaliers: 1961, 62, 63 & 1966, 67
Racine Kilts: 1968, 69
Argonne Rebels: 1971, 72

DCI:

Santa Clara Vanguard: 1973, 74
Cadets: 1983, 84, 85
Cavaliers: 2000, 01, 02
Blue Devils: 1976, 77 & 1979, 80 & 1996, 97

Some very impressive records! And, great corps!

I THINK THE CAVIES WENT UNDEFEATED IN 2000 OR 2001.
I THINK???????????

Yes, I think they were undefeated one of those years, but I don't remember which one.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

And some "undefeated" seasons weren't really that, but the corps call them that. For example, in 1975 the Madison Scouts were undefeated in FINALS competition; same thing with the 1976 Blue Devils. They both ignore the fact that they lost prelims once each year - in fact, both years it was at Whitewater to Santa Clara!

Maybe I'm being picky, but shouldn't undefeated mean you NEVER lost?!

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

I don't know whether to count prelims. If we do that we might add standstills and in that case the Cavaliers weren't undefeated in 1961 because they lost a standstill to Norwood.

My recollection of prelims was they were to sort out the marginal corps so the actual contest was limited to ten or twelve corps. Have never seen a DCI prelim program but prior to that the prelim show was a shorter program and a lot of times the top corps didn't spend a lot of time on practice and just went through the motions.

John is correct, the idea of "preliminary" contests was exactly that .. sort out the lower level corps to create a "top unit" line up for "finals."

But, in the days of AL and VFW, the prelim shows were shorter .. the corps didn't do their full shows or "concert". Sometimes, there would be some really surprising prelim results because corps selected their shows to make the finals. St. Kevin's did that in 1960 .. they won prelims but placed FOURTH in finals. And, the Imperials placed fifth in prelims in 1962 but dropped to 7th in the finals.

And, some of the top corps didn't really work much on their prelim shows ... figuring they'd be in the finals regardless.

In DCI, when they do have prelims, it is just another full show.

In 1964 the Cavaliers placed 7th in VFW prelims. Not only did the Kilts and Royal Airs beat them, but the entire Boston Contingent (Crusaders, St Kevins and the St Mary's Cardinals) plus St Lucy's? Vasella and Sac were about a 0.1 behind them. St Kevins and Boston were really great that year but St. Mary's and St Lucy's. (see the corpsreps.com site--my memory is good but not that good)

Since they were defending champions they were ceded at VFW and went on last during finals. Still it must have been a huge "wakeup call." They managed to finish 3rd behing the Kilts and Royal Airs. I assume they practiced their prelim show a couple of weeks later (and so did Blessed Sacrament) at the World Open as Sac won prelims with the Cavaliers 2nd and the Cavaliers won the World Open with Sac in second.

Undefeated = never defeated = always won!

So, the Cavaliers were not "undefeated" in 1961. They can say that they were undefeated in FIELD contests if they want to.

But, prelims are a field contest so .. if you were defeated in prelims, you just lost your "undefeated" season!

I wasn't there in the begining, but unless I am mistaken wasn't one of the reasons for a "shorter" prelim drill was that there were alot more corps participating. I remember watching prelims at Hanson Park in Chicago in 1965 and there probably were 60 corps. In Roosevelt Stadium in Newark in 1966 might have been more.

What did you do in the Corps? Drummer

What years were you a Corps member? Cadets 1965 Imperials 1966-1971

I'm sure the number of corps was the reason for shorter prelim shows. DCI eliminated those immediately, although AL and VFW continued to use them. And yes, very little time was spent on them! In 1974, we (Cavaliers) figured out our prelim show for VFW Nationals in Chicago on the bus riding down to Hanson Park - tossed out concert and threw in a drum solo from 1966. Of course, there were no other DCI corps there, so we knew it didn't matter.

What did you do in the Corps? Snare; Drum Major; Drum Instructor/Arranger

What years were you a Corps member? 1970-73; 78-79

Dennis is right .. with the shorter programs, they cut the corps field time in half. In the 50's and 60s, there would be 50 or 60 corps in prelims. There were times that prelims would last 2 days, despite an early am start.

Dave,

So what did the American Legion do in the late 50s. I recollect the story of Legion Nationals in 1959. The contest was held during the day with Blessed Sacrament defeating the Cavaliers. There was no final contest. There was an "unofficial" finals that evening at a show in Stillwater Minnesota with I think 8 of the top 9. At Stillwater, the Cavaliers and Sac tied with Norwood in 3rd.

Was the Legion Nationals in 1959 a shortened drill? Or did all the corps put on their full show?

1959 AL Nationals ... I seem to remember that we did the full drill for prelims, but not sure. Maybe omitted concert.

Legion was strange .. most often they did NOT have junior preliminaries. Just one show. They started having junior contests in 1937 (SAL only) and all juniors in 1940. The first junior prelims I found was 1957 .. but then not again until 1961. It might be that they only had prelims when they needed some junior corps to "fill out" their traditional evening senior show. At the senior show, the evening started with an exhibition by the winning junior corps.

But in the mid 60s they started having junior prelims with more regularity. The last AL junior contest was 1980.