After the number of people posting in the last thread on tubeless who appear to be already running, or planning on converting to, tubeless, I thought I'd give it another go - despite my last attempt which was good to start with but then became so frustrating that my neighbours and Alison learnt new words and I lost a further 30% of my hair. I like the idea of not getting punctures in this horrible cold wet weather that seems likley to stretch on for a few more months yet.

So, 50 quid poorer, last night I spent upwards of 5 hours trying to get Maxxis Medusas to seat on my Mavic CrossRides and Alison's Stan's ZTR Crests. Not even close. I'm using a track pump (I don't have a compressor) and tried most of the tricks I found on forums - lots of soapy water, neat Fairy Liquid, building up a centre ridge with extra tape. I've got a rim strip in one wheel and a valve a rim tape in the other. I put the valve at the top and the bottom, I pressed on the valve area of the tyre, I put one of the tyres inside out for a couple of hours, I inflated a tube in the tyre with the rim tape to make sure it was in place. The only thing I read about that I didn't try was to inflate a tube inside the tyre to pop it up, then somehow try and take it out from one side and get a tubeless valve or rim strip in place while not knocking the other bead off - the chances of that working seemed slim and you've still got to get the unseated bead to pop back up again.

As a last gasp attempt, I thought I'd try another tyre. I put a Schwalbe Racing Ralph on, and that popped straight up with no effort at all, only one hand on the pump, and held pressure at 40psi with no problem. I tried it on the other wheel - same success.

So - is it just the Medusas? (It was a 1.8 Exception series tyre.) Anyone else had any similar experience? Any hints or tips? I'm planning on a last try tomorrow by taking them to the local garage and having a go with their airline, but I'd love it to be easier than that - even if that works.

Help...

Dom

Kind of defeats the point of running tubeless in the winter if you can only get a Racing Ralph on - I think I'd rather have a puncture than ride them in this mud


I'm sooooo helpful!!

Some tyres are a bit tricky. You can pop over and give my compressor a try if you like (teversham).

Chris

I found good old mud X'S pop on easily with a compressor, Conti explorers, no chance so could be tyre related. There is such a thing as a Ghetto inflator which roughly consists of a 2l coke bottle, 2 schraeder valves , track pump & a piece of tube. Pump up bottle with enought pressure to launch Apollo 11, attach to valve on tyre & unkink connecting tube. Apparently it's foolproof. I however have never tried it!
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/ghetto-tubeless-inflator-total-cost-9p

Hi Dom

I have had tubeless success with specialized tyres and Maxxis Beavers on my 29er. I temporarily took a break with the 26 inch Medusas on my Orange, as we had to go out. However the Medusas were a very loose fit (in a vertical plane) on the shoulders (I don't mean the sides) of the rims rims, where as the 29er tyres were were quite a tight fit. My next step will be to wrap a couple of rounds of Gorilla tape around the rim, to build the shoulders up until the medusas are a tighter fit in the vertical plane. Cheers Tom R

Cripes! and you wonder why I am confused by all this tubeless stuff. Shoulders? Rims rims? Vertical plane? Gorillas? BEAVERS?!

I can't believe this is even still a debate for MTBs.

I've used UST tyres when they first came out, and they worked fine. Then I used a Stan's kit on Michelin and Specialized tyres- and it worked great, with normal Mavic rims. The Stan's and other kits have only gotten better over the years. Now I'm on Stan's rims with tubeless compatible specialized (non-UST) tyres and it works great. It inflates with a track pump and seals instantly.

Lower pressures. Nuff said. (I've used as low 25psi in the back).

Effectively no punctures. (I did puncture in the last Thetford Winter race and it sealed before I could even get off the bike- and it was -1 degrees!) If you do get a puncture that the Stan's won't seal, just throw a tube in.

Once you get the knack,pretty much any tyre will be ok. One more tip: if you're using new tyres, clean them with disc brake cleaner to remove the silicon lube that helps them out of the mould during manufacture.

Or, use latex tubes...

Hi Wes

I think you're missing the point slightly. The debate is not whether to go tubeless (I thought it was pretty clear I wanted to!), but how to get the fu**ing tyres to inflate when you do. If you look on forums about tubeless (and I have done so ad bloody infinitum over the last few days looking for help), they are littered with people like me who cannot get some or all tyres to seat with a track pump. A good example, and one the thread title of which sums things up perfectly, is "I love tubeless. No hang on I hate tubeless. Nope I love again. hate I mean.".


Yours did. I'm pleased for you. Mine didn't. If you'd like to come over and pump my Medusas up with my track pump, you'd be most welcome. I'll even provide a cup of tea! Me? I'll settle into a comfortable chair in my slippers with a glass of good whisky and enjoy watching you!

Hopefully, one way or another, I'll be out on a tubeless-equipped bike soon. I went to my local garage yesterday for a test run with their airline and the Medusa popped up OK, so just got to go back now with a valve with a core in and the bottle of sealant ready.

You're absolutely right about the lack of attraction of a puncture at -1C...

Dom

P.S. Thanks to all who have contributed thoughts. Chris, providing my garage remains obliging with their airline, they're a bit closer than Teversham, but thanks! Rick, I'll give that ghetto inflator a go - it sounds like fun! Tom, my Medusas are fairly new, but same loose fit as you noted.

Sorry Dom: I didn't read your initial post very carefully. My mistake. Duly chastised, and I realise now that probably made me come across as a bit of an ass! (My debate quip was only directed at the thread title)

I'd give the method of installing a tube and removing it a try. I did this with my cross bike (on which tubeless is notoriously more difficult) and it worked well.

I did have some trouble on the cross bike with Panaracers, but an old nylon rim strip and a few passes of electrical tape made the bead nice and tight. Others have used an old tube cut lengthwise to take up the space. Alternatively stans makes ones with the valve integrated (to be used in addition to their yellow tape. Some have used Velox tape since its quite thick, but it will absorb the fluid a bit.

You could also try having someone 'massage' the bead over the valve while you pump.

Don't use a CO2 (Stan's advises the CO2 can react with the fluid). But you can use a "Big Air" Canister. Maybe worth a shot.

but at the end of the day, some tyres just don't work well tubeless if they have a really loose fit.

This is a good article, its about cross tyres, but the same rules apply mostly: http://www.cxmagazine.com/going-tubeless-cyclocross-tires-racing-recommendations

i found conti mountain kings and speed kings very difficult to inflate, even with a compressor. required a lot of persuasion.

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Hi Wes

Sorry I was a bit snippy. I let the frustration of five hours pointless pumping get to me.

Thanks for the link to the 'cross article. I read all three parts - quite interesting. Building up the base to 'pad out' the space makes sense, but I'm using Stan's rim strips and they already leave only just about as much wheel sidewall as I'm comfortable with - any more and it looks like there just wouldn't be enough sidewall to hold onto the tyre bead!

The good news to report is that I went to the garage and used their airline yesterday, and successfully rode tubeless last night. Both tyres held pressure. It'll be interesting to see, when I come to change tyres or replenish sealant, whether I can then get the Medusas back up with a track pump...

Cheers
Dom

Ultimate fail in spam when there isn't contact details!

I always lube the bottom of the bead with a bit of hand soap, helps it seal much more easily then dries/washes out.
Compressors are very handy. Mine cost me £60 five years ago and is still able to wake the neighbours when in kicks in during midnight marathon bike fettleing
Go on Dom, it'll take years off you

OK. noob question.

so you have tried all the tricks, put in shims, spacers, lube and everything else.

you have to use a compressor to get the tyre to seat.

you are out on the trails, get a bit too much air and burp the tyre on landing..... i'm guessing a hand pump is going to leave you in the middle of no-wear, red in the face from all the pumping, and you still have to walk home.
any golden nugets (apart from cary a spare tube)?

generally a burp isn't a problem. The tyre usually pumps straight back up. There are two main issues I have. First is when I forget to add more sealent after a month or so and the tyre goes dry - doesn't seal after a puncture then.
The second is if you damage the casing by hitting a rock and you get a cut or damage the bead. The tyre doesn't usually seal with the rim afterwards.

I have been know to stick a bit of heather in cuts before...

Yeah, Pat, that's a bit of a worry for me too! To be fair, when I went tubeless before, I did burp a couple of times and some sealant was actually seen coming out of the tyre, but it only lost a bit of pressure and the bead re-sealed, and as Chris says, I was able to pump it back up.

As far as cuts and tears are concerned (as opposed to thorn punctures and similar), Mike C swears by one of these kits: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/panaracer-tubeless-patch-kit/. He's apparently used it successfully on a ride for real!

Nonetheless, clearly you still need to carry a couple of spare tubes. Shouldn't be a problem for your rucksack, though, Pat?

Dom